Eliot Page; a positive example of masculinity?

[juoist]

I shared this news story in a group whatsapp and my year 8 daughter just told me that the same thing happened in her assembly recently.

I mean, this is batshit insanity and totally goes against what the Cass review states.

It’s out and out grooming. Clearly Page is an example of something other than positivity, whenever I see them being interviewed , they seem deeply depressed and miserable.

Are any of the boys in her school going to see Page as a man? Are any of the girls going to see it and wonder if their clothes choices and hairstyle mean they’re also a man? Why are schools still pumping out this unhealthy rhetoric for young teens? It’s insane.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14924669/Primary-school-trans-actor-Elliot-Page-lesson-masculinity.html

Perhaps the school rightly doesn't underestimate children understanding the difference between gender & sex or diversity even though many adults do. I suspect openness to new ideas is less prone to being smothered by biases at a younger age.

Is it a bad example? Would exposing children to gay people 'make them gay'?
This flawed logic only succeeds for kooky 'blank slatists' that can't conceive of innate inclinations driving personal expression usually because it threatens their world views. If anyone is a danger to children its those that preach difference as contagious 'degeneracy' rather than biological diversity.

I remember years ago watching Hard Candy when it came out, and thinking what a cracking film it was, and how good she was (also Patrick Wilson). And now, it all seems so sad. There's no happiness there.

It's a trans gym. Pretty sure her tiny trainer is also female.

I stopped doing Duolingo ages ago now. One of the phrases that used to come up in the Hindi bit was translated as "We are small men" (hum choti aadmi hai). Maybe they were forward thinking as it reminds me of them.

can you please explain what you think the difference is between gender and sex? I keep asking this and so far no credible replies.

I was wondering about that

Your word salad has got rather nonsensical but I hope you can understand that the reason this is wrong is because E. Page is not a man.

Presenting her to children as an example of ‘a man’ is therefore incorrect and makes them look monumentally stupid.

The school also referenced pop star Harry Styles alongside Page to help demonstrate that men can be multi-dimensional.
We need to show that to be a man is not to be simply one thing. To do so, we highlight well-known figures such as Harry Styles and Elliot Page. They show that masculinity can mean softness and strength, and everything in between.”

Who says it is innate biological diversity to be transgender? There is nothing whatsoever biologically innate about cross sex hormones and surgery.

How dare you suggest a child is born in the wrong body/trans (innately so) just because they might be gender non/conforming. It is perfectly normal for a girl or boy to not fit gender stereotypes but that does not mean they are not their sex, and it does not mean that anything about them whatsoever needs changing.

It is an absolute crime to tell a toddler boy he is a girl or a toddler girl that she is a boy. Because their parent believes they are innately a different sex.

It has just come up in the House of Lirds that a child transed by his parents when he was 2 1/2 is now 11 and hiding in his room because he is starting to go through puberty and is evidently a boy so everyone will now know he is not a girl.

The next step, and crime, will probably be puberty blockers to keep up the gaslighting (affirmation). The trajectory after that is female hormones and probably surgery.

Awesome. You can explain what you think the difference between sex and gender is, as if to a child.

Made to by whom? Who exactly is it that should be making me see Elliot Page as a man? Good luck with that.

Aragorn (LOTR) has been touted online recently as a positive example of masculinity.

Which is somewhat ironic, given that he's fictional. 😬

I cannot take Elliot Page seriously. I see them as a somewhat tragic figure tbh.

From my GC perspective, sex is male and female, man and woman. Two immutable developmental pathways in mammals for the purpose of reproduction.

Gender is a set of societal expectations that are masculine and feminine. They are reductive and sexist and to be resisted when they constrain us.

Some people believe they have an innate sense of gender, which they call a gender identity. They frequently insist everyone else does as well.

I think it's horseshit, just as I reject spirit guides, horoscopes, souls to be saved and other magical thinking. It's Page's right to believe she has one and to modify her body to appear masculine. It doesn't alter her sex, though. And she looks so unwell.

Maybe because they are trying to escape from who they are, and in the process abandoning all the young women trying to be proud strong positive female role models - no one can really be content in a fake life, hiding who they really are and mimicking a reality they can never actually understand, much less be. Personally i can only admire and like women who are proud to be women and have some kind of solidarity with other women. Otherwise they're just "pick me, I'm not like those other women" old school misogynists

Kae Tempest is such a disappointment. She was so cool and articulate.

Her voice is buggered in that awful testosterone thickening and it's ruined her performance.

Rich celebs love to use children as accessories, either through inappropriate adoption, by abusing poor women through surrogacy, or pretending their own children are magically special

It's interesting. I genuinely see the Elliot character as a boy and can sympathise / empathise with his story, but in the way I would to a character in a work of fiction not a real person.

He is a fictional character Page invented - "The person I would be if I had been born a boy".

In the same way that I can genuinely relate to and emphasise with a character in a film while still being aware that they are not an actual real person with a life story and a history and that there is an actor who is a real person behind them performing them, it's exactly the same feeling here.

Homosexuality is when you are exclusively attracted to members of your own sex. That’s it, what don’t you understand.

There was crossover in the past. Men who demonstrated feminine behaviour were seen as likely to be gay, and punished for that. That’s why the Beaumont Society originally banned gay men from membership.

I've always thought Elliot was good people. Been aware since a teenage appearance on Trailer Park Boys as Lahey, and always came across well as sensitive and empathetic in interviews. It was very sad news to hear of trauma and abuse and I would not be remotely surprised if Elliot is also autistic (to be fair I guess it would have been mentioned by now if so...).

That’s the problem. She looks like a middle aged child

It's perfectly possible to think that some things are innate and gender identity isn't one of them. Presumably even you don't think all aspects of personal expression are driven by innate inclinations alone.

Ellen Page has always struck me as someone lost. She went from straight to bisexual to lesbian to trans. Always searching for an identity (which is weird for an actress). She's now found an identity that is irreversible.

Much like those who go on about "womanface" this is very much "manface". (I know women do boxing), but this feels like she is trying to do these things to prove that she is a man. Much like how the trans woman suddenly pretend to like shopping and cocktails (even though again men can enjoy them).

I don't think any male would ever she her as a role model for men. No matter how much the media try to push it.

Another problem with using celebrities as role models is that they're all very 'look at me'. They go all out for attention.

Unfortunately that's what modem society has become: pick an identity and project it as hard as you can. No wonder gender dysphoria is so much more of a thing.

Gender: Behavioural, cultural or psychological traits typically associated with one sex.

Sex: Reproductive traits based on reproductive organs & structures.