Eliot Page; a positive example of masculinity?

[juoist]

I shared this news story in a group whatsapp and my year 8 daughter just told me that the same thing happened in her assembly recently.

I mean, this is batshit insanity and totally goes against what the Cass review states.

It’s out and out grooming. Clearly Page is an example of something other than positivity, whenever I see them being interviewed , they seem deeply depressed and miserable.

Are any of the boys in her school going to see Page as a man? Are any of the girls going to see it and wonder if their clothes choices and hairstyle mean they’re also a man? Why are schools still pumping out this unhealthy rhetoric for young teens? It’s insane.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14924669/Primary-school-trans-actor-Elliot-Page-lesson-masculinity.html

I suppose EP is pretty much the textbook 'trans man' in the sense of being an initially closeted gay woman who suffered horrendous abuse (from men, obviously) very early on life.

I feel a huge amount of both empathy and sympathy, but, yes, EP doesn't have anything like the physicality to play like Achilles. Heck, nearly all natal men don't. It'd be on a par with casting a 6'5", square jawed, hulking TW to play Helen of Troy, it'd immediately break all viewer immersion

You should speak to @Baileyonice who is now saying that detransitioners made a choice to become trans. Surely the detransitioners (who apparently weren't really trans) must have decided to transition because of social contagion?

Detransitioners are heretics, because they clearly show the folly of trans.

Apparently someone can now transition, take hormones, have sex change surgery but now not be trans?

I suppose this is what happens when you try to create an ambiguous trans identity. Legally trans is defined as sexual reassignment, so the medical and legal processes, not a "soul".

Gender dysphoria is a thing (and is a mental condition), detransitioners had it, it made them transition, and then afterwards they lost their dysphoria and reverted back to their real sex.

If detrans isn't trans, then someone needs to explain what trans actually is.

Discontinuing taking hormones doesn't mean you discontinue being trans. There could be any number of reasons why for not continuing with hormones that don't include detransitioning. I knew you didn't understand the paper.

So the true rate of detransition is unknown then, isn’t it? Like I said. Not “tiny” like you said. You really don’t understand what the paper is saying.

Gender affirming surgery for minors is considered as a 'special medical procedure' & as such requires court approval based on the individual circumstances. To try & pass this off as some blanket approval for GAC surgery for minors is simply disinformation.

Wrong. Provide proof it needs court approval. Go on. In Australia only the consent of parents is required. That girl in the example did not need court approval.

You are the one saying it doesn’t happen at all. I said nothing about there being blanket approval. It’s happened, and it’s happening. You need to provide evidence for your claim.

Oh stop lying. I never said it doesn't happen I said its not legal.

Okay, demonstrate that it is illegal to get a mastectomy in Australia. Or the entire United States. Link to the law. Even the executive orders and state laws have only banned the funding or provision of it. But it’s not illegal to get one. And that’s not in all states.

Is knee surgery banned given the regret rate?

You said gender affirming surgery has “one of if not lowest regret rate.” That isn’t true. The true regret rate hasn’t been studied long term. That’s the problem. Why do you keep talking about knees? You know knees and breasts aren’t the same, right? The regret rate for knee surgery long term has been studied. The long term regret rate for mastectomies.

And regret for knee surgery is based on the symptoms it leads to. It’s not based on the fact there was never anything wrong with the knee in the first place, which is what the regret from gender mastectomies is from.

The whole point is the fact that detransitioners demonstrate that the diagnosis of “trans” in children and young people is unreliable. The comparator would be the diagnosis of osteoarthritis is unreliable. Both lead to surgeries that might lead to regret. Only one has objectively demonstrated evidence that can be visualised by other people. So they really aren’t the same.

I do wonder about the mindset of people who are so dismissive of the fact children are having their breasts removed on the basis of what can be a transient feeling, and thinking that’s ok, or comparable to demonstrable knee disease in adults. The clown emoji doesn’t do that justice. There’s something malevolent about that. Is there a Pennywise clown emoji?

She’s not playing Achilles, she’s playing another character apparently. There’s been the whole manufactured outrage of an amazing black woman playing Helen of Troy, I can see the logic behind that casting, but he’s too smart to sabotage his own massive project passing off a tiny woman as a Greek demigod. People would just laugh.

The trope that gets repeated in defence of extreme body modifications for gender identity gets absurd when we start seeing the regret rates for knee surgeries misused for that defence. It never worked as it was not comparative. Yet it still gets rolled out.

I'll believe all this gender bending and race swapping stuff in movies when Eliot Page is cast as Gandhi, Part 2.

Why not?

Cultivated mystery. Ells character isn't labelled on the IMDB cast listings (yet)

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt33764258/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_1_tt_5_nm_2_in_0_q_ody

I think she/ they are fine and I have no problems with them dressed/ acting as a man but masculinity? How do they explain this?

It would seem that they are delaying in announcing what role she is in so that they can delay the inevitable backlash over it.

All the Money in the World get delayed to replace Kevin Spacer with Christopher Plummer. They don't want to be forced to either cut her out or refilm and delay the film.

I suspect the Helen actress was chosen for rage bait reasons, but it really strikes me as far from unreasonable, if she's meant to be the daughter of Zeus then all bets must surely be off in terms of what she might look like. The 2004 film's strikingly blonde cast was arguably no less silly.

But Page playing a man, I mean...

You've gone back to the Castrati, I'm going back to David Cassidy - you go high when I go low - look, it could have been worse, I could have gone Donny Osmond😄

Young men who looked more like young women [acc to traditional stereotypes] and who were heartthrobs for 13 year old girls - is that the example of masculinity that EP is going for I wonder?

People who are "confused or in denial about who they really are" describes men who think they're women and women who think they're men. Because nobody actually is the opposite sex to that of their body.

You seem to be saying that people who thought they were the opposite sex but it turns out they weren't aren't genuine trans people, they're just confused people who can't work out who they are. These are the detransitioners.

But according to you there are also genuine transpeople who are actually the opposite sex to that of their body.

Would they put a transman in an all male prison? I'm guessing not. They would be raped every day and all day

Is that a trick question?

No. I used to work in a YOI.

They put a TIF in a male psych ward. She was raped within an hour of being put there.

Doesn't surprise me. "His" vagina in a male prison would be the most popular orifice. That's why trans men are not housed in male prisons, not even in Scotland.

I agree. You don’t see TIF campaigning to be transferred to male prisons do you? Or pushing to be included in male sports. It’s almost like the trans movement is a man’s movement.

Quite so.

Just to be specific, there are 5 or fewer trans men held in male prisons. The rest are in the female estate.

Unlike the male to female trans who are not considered a risk in the female estate

It just shows the hypocrisy of the genderwang. If it’s worse than death for a TIM to be in a male prison, why are they not campaigning for all those TIF to be put in male prisons. They should not be, but it exposes the true agenda. All prisons should be single sex.

Indeed. But there is no clamour for trans men to be in any spaces or sports reserved for men. In fact, most men would say if a female strips off in their changing room or were to be in close confines with a male prisoner, bring it on. Or if they want to compete in a male sport and get the sh*t kicked out of them, bring it on. Just goes to show, this is is a male driven movement.