Eliot Page; a positive example of masculinity?

[juoist]

I shared this news story in a group whatsapp and my year 8 daughter just told me that the same thing happened in her assembly recently.

I mean, this is batshit insanity and totally goes against what the Cass review states.

It’s out and out grooming. Clearly Page is an example of something other than positivity, whenever I see them being interviewed , they seem deeply depressed and miserable.

Are any of the boys in her school going to see Page as a man? Are any of the girls going to see it and wonder if their clothes choices and hairstyle mean they’re also a man? Why are schools still pumping out this unhealthy rhetoric for young teens? It’s insane.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14924669/Primary-school-trans-actor-Elliot-Page-lesson-masculinity.html

Ah. So we’re back to What is the positive masculinity that Page demonstrates? and you not really knowing what you mean.

I also wouldn’t bother with the name changes if you’re going to keep the same posting style. It’s a little tedious.

My own personal view? Given Page's journey I suspect he's a positive role model for courage, strength & sensitivity regardless of all the obstacles.

And Eddie Izzard before he decided he was a woman called Suzie but you can call me Eddie 🙄

@Baileyonicecompletely different regarding Denzel Washington as Macbeth. Elliot Page as a male solder in the Trojan War is not subversive, just wrong! How are actual males going to look next to them?!

I wasn't sure what happened to Sinon after his 'capture' by the Trojans. The character doesn't seem to be mentioned after the big scene. So I don't know if Sinon will be joining in all the rape and enslavement of the Trojan women and girls, the massacre of their sons.

According to Wikipedia Sinon is mentioned in other literature. Not in a good way

In Dante Alighieri's poem Inferno (Canto 30), Sinon is seen in the Tenth Bolgia of Hell's Circle of Fraud where, along with other falsifiers of words, he is condemned to suffer a burning fever for all eternity. Sinon is here rather than the Evil Counselors Bolgia because his advice was false as well as evil.

The word "Sinonical" was coined by Lewes Lewknor in his 1595 work The Estate of English Fugitives.

William Shakespeare referred to Sinon on several occasions in his work, using him as a symbol of treachery. For instance, in Cymbeline Imogen says to Pisanio, "True honest men being heard, like false Aeneas, / Were in his time thought false, and Sinon's weeping / Did scandal many a holy tear" (Act 3, Scene 4). In Henry VI Part III, the Duke of Gloucester says, "I'll play the orator as well as Nestor, / Deceive more slily than Ulysses could, / And, like a Sinon, take another Troy" (Act 3, Scene 2).

In Chapter 4 of George Eliot’s historical novel Romola, during his first full day in Renaissance Florence, Italy, main character Tito Melema is asked by a painter if he would model as Sinon for a canvas depicting Sinon deceiving Priam, shocking Tito at the implication and foreshadowing his treachery later in the novel.

As an aside I stopped watching The Umbrella Academy after it was inferred that Page was tired from shagging all the women in the town.

Yuck, I can't think of any drama with any character of any sex where that wouldn't be an immediate bye bye from me.

Positive role models of masculinity - do they mean positive role models of men who behave in ways not traditionally regarded as masculine - caring, artistic, gentle etc? This is going to cause all sorts of conceptual difficulty for those who think men are defined by constellations of common behaviours.

Positive examples of people who may or may not identify as men based on behaviour that falls somewhat outside the average or typical range for male folk, and may also not actually be male, but y'know, positive examples of people to inspire the ... young people.

Well maybe all good if as per your first para, but it begs the question, what do you mean by 'masculinity'? After all, the concept of 'femininity' is widely derided on MN. Should 'masculinity' be taken any more seriously?

This is dumb. Denzel Washington played Macbeth & no one thought he really was a white Scottish king

Look, you utter dingbat, there is no problem with productions casting against race or sex. That's been done forever. Glenda Jackson King Lear, Mrs Siddons as Hamlet in the late 1700s, or Dev Patel as Sir Gawain in the recent film.

The Old Vic is about to stage an all female production of Glengarry Glen Ross, with a British Asian woman as the lead.

The difference is in pretending Page, a tiny wee woman, is actually a bloke.

Although the fact she's playing the most notorious deceiver in history bar Judas is perhaps subversively Terfy.

You are confusing mythical/'Hollywood' soldiers in size with typical ones who archaeologists and historians estimate that the average height for men in the broader Bronze Age Mediterranean region was approximately 5.5 to 5.8 because of the time.

In any case, Page's character isn't one known for it' size & strength but manipulation & conniving.

Believing men don't come in sizes is the ultimate on dingbatery.

You need to get out from behind the keyboard & into the real world.

In the real world now, a man is actually more likely to be trans than to be 5’1”. It’s that unusual.

There was minimum height requirement for the Roman Army. Regularly ignored to be sure, but soldiers were supposed to be 5’7” or so and would have to be exceptional fighters to be exempted.

It is quite misandric, in the context of the army where men are exploited for their physical characteristics, to pretend that male physique is irrelevant. EP has been cast for the publicity.

So sex and gender is different, yet gender uses sex reference terms to describe the gender identity and those male people with opposite sex transgender identities demand access to all female single sex provisions?

Either this is a falsehood to attempt to convince society that sex and gender are different to distract discussion or those people who are the extreme transgender activists making the demands that all female single sex provisions be accessible to male people haven’t recieved the memo.

It is dingbat territory to attempt to convince the world that a historical military fighter, where hand to hand combat and heavy hand held weapons was necessary, would be a female person who was 5’1”.

There is significant difference between a male of 5’ and a female at 5’.

Its not a crazy concept for Macbeth to have been a women. We did a brief module on this at uni and it totally can be interpreted that way.

A 5” woman with very little muscle development would have been recruited as a fighter in a Greek army?

How would that have been realistic?

I'm not technically able due to my age (!) but if u google it, it explains the interpretation that we looked at. At uni you have the luxury of looking at things in a new way and was pro feminist in its approach.

Yep, it’s a he/they. The height is clearly 5’1 same as Elliot Page, Nolan is tiny compared to the other boxer trainers. There is one photo of Nolan in a hospital bed, presumably a mastectomy.

www.transboxing.org/nolan

https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2025/09/a-boxing-coach-fled-anti-lgbtq-russia-now-his-trans-trainee-is-fighting-to-free-him-from-ice/

I'd pay to watch Denzil Washington (or Glenda Jackson) as MacBeth as long as I wasn't expected to kneel to him in the theatre bar and call him 'my liege' afterwards, ather than compliment him on his performance and cringingly ask for an autograph. Or still be expected to curtsey should we cross paths at any time in the future. Page can play a male role on screen, or can try too, as could any actress. That we are expected to comply in her delusion off the stage is as daft as thinking because it's night-time on screen it has to be dark outside.

'But but but mummy why can't I shit in my nappy whenever I feel like it!

The level of puerile infantilism is breathtaking.

If EP, as a non-man, can be a positive example of masculinity, exhibiting certain features that people consider desirable and laudable, why can't I, as a woman, have those features and be a role model for masculinity?

What a weird thing to post! You can do what you want but you're changing yourself. I'm not your mummy.

Um, 'the mummy' is societal convention in relation to politeness….of which you as the 'child' don't seem to comprehend.

No one has ever 'politely' referred to me as their mummy who wasn't actually my child. It's weird and frankly creepy. You don't seem to comprehend politeness at all (ref. your previous post). I think you've scored an own goal.