Why do some feminists oppose misogyny but support gender ideology?

[Doodwhatareyou]

I recently ended up in the man hating side of tiktok, which is a place I tend to be in agreement with. I’ve seen several women bravely battle stupid men in the comments who manage to reinforce everything being said.

I’ve seen a pattern though that these women, who seem to be very up on rules of misogyny, and aware of how problematic too many men are, usually have pronouns in their bio, and occasionally will complain about being bullied by terfs.

I’m baffled.

How can they be so up on patriarchal nonsense yet miss the fundamental misogyny in gender ideology. How can they deny the evidence that trans identified men are just as much of a problem for women if not more as they want women’s rights and spaces.

They can make endless videos about how hateful men are because of the way women are treated, and how women have to budge up and make room, yet trans identified men are women, and anyone who says otherwise is a massive bigot. I don’t understand.

The fact it is an AI summary of the different approaches to feminism on no way detracts from its point. I could have also photographed the first page of the feminism chapter in any GCSE Sociology or Politics textbook.

This is really basic stuff.

Oh aye do they.

Just on this forum, there are straight and gay and bi and asexual women: partnered and single women; women with children and women without; younger women and older women; women with all kinds of opinion; and so on.

So I think we're very aware that women are not a monolith.

Doesn't change the fact that men are not women.

I said: Not all women agree

You responded: trans women are not women

Implying its only trans women that don't agree.

You walked straight into that one…😂

Interesting. Where do you think is the patriarchy's interest in keeping men out of women's spaces?

I think your reading comprehension needs some work.

Not all women are the same, obviously not. Not all women agree on everything, obviously not.

None of that undermines women's rights to single sex spaces.

None of that undermines the fact that men can't become women.

Glad to clear it up for you.

" Patriarchy" is the rule of the father and, by extension, men. It centres male interests and values and prioritises the male experience. Female people tend to be seen as the property of male people; and their activities tend to be heavily circumscribed.

Many cultures in the world are still patriarchal....those countries in which female people do not have equal rights in law; whose word is worth less than that of male people; who are literally the property of male people;; and in which female people are confined to the domestic sphere.

Trans activists have simply appropriated the word 'patriarchy', as they have also appropriated female sex based terms, entirely for their own political agenda - and one which is entirely male focused - and which attempts to subjugate and colonise the spaces that rightfully are ocupied by female people.

It's called manufacturing consent.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_Consent

Female people are not a monolith, but one thing, the only thing, they all do have in common is their sex.

Did you mean this comment to appear on some other thread?

Yes that's a great explanation as to how some misinformed women have been gaslit into putting men's desires above their own needs and rights. Cheers

Accepting trans as a legitimate identity & ally

You do know that trans people are individual people don’t you? And some of those people have aims directly opposed to those of (most) women?

I find it interesting that you talk over Seethlaw as a trans person and dismiss those views. You are certainly not treating Seethlaw as an ally. Why would that be?

The TRA movement was very successful in appropriating, and tail-gating, the language and successes of other civil rights movements...namely the Women's movement and the Gay Rights movement. But this has been done surreptitiously; in an sneaky, hidden way.....which has taken advantage of the goodwill and successes accrued by these other movements and has utilised them to its own ends. ( See Stonewall and other funded lobby groups)

PIE tried to do this too - in the 1970s, by attaching itself to gay rights and civil liberty discussions. It was understood that their poropositions were just too extreme and too radical for most people to accept, and so their aims were camouflaged in more socially acceptable terminology.

I'm sorry to hear about your experience - it can have long-lasting effects.

Just in case you are not seeing one already, a good pelvic physiotherapist who specialises in women's bodies can be a game changer. Or please log somewhere in your brain for the future that if you have problems at menopause, and your GP basically says something along the lines of, "oh dear, just do the exercises", a physio can help then as well.

I have no doubt that "trans heretics" belong in the same "Not Trans!" waste bin as "detransitioners" and "criminal trans people" 😁

Perhaps AI can spell it out manufacturing consent for you:

1. The Right: Political Strategy and Ideological Consensus

Scholars and analysts argue that conservative political movements and certain media outlets strategically manufacture consent for restrictive policies—such as bans on gender-affirming care or limitations on public presence—by treating a small minority as a societal threat. 1, 2, 3] Framing Issues: Instead of focusing on standard political priorities, media campaigns amplify highly specific, culturally divisive gender issues to shift public focus. 1, 2] Delegitimizing Healthcare: Research demonstrates how anti-trans advocates utilize false equivalences, sensationalized narratives, and discredited information to manufacture public panic and legitimize the rolling back of civil rights. 1]

When you are talking about this so called ‘patriarchy’, are you getting ‘women are a monolith’ mixed up with ‘women are a sex class that excludes men’ by any chance?

See, @Baileyonice

Women don't need anyone to 'manufacture' an argument about why single sex spaces are important to them. It is entirely self evident.

And what does any of this have to do with the book whose Wikipedia page you linked to?

It's really that wonderfully simple isn't it?

Janice Raymond refers to it as "a historical reality about what it means to be born with XX chromosomes."

The full quote captures everything these discussions are about:

But in some very real senses, female biology shapes female history—a history that men don’t have because of their sex—including the history of menstruation, the history of pregnancy or the capacity to become pregnant, the history of childbirth and abortion, the history of certain bodily cycles and life changes, and the history of female subordination in a male-dominant society. Note that I keep saying history. To deny that female history is, in part, based on female biology is like denying that important aspects of Black history are based on skin color. As with biological skin color, female biology doesn’t confer an essential femininity; rather it confers a historical reality about what it means to be born with XX chromosomes.

Males are outsiders to female history and the material reality of existing in a female body, they always have been and always will be. End of story. Anything outside of that is woo-woo.

How very wokey lived experience. This is as silly as suggesting only lived experience qualifies one to a legitimate voice….even if that voice is in conflict with others of the very same lived experience.

Trans people just like women are not a monolith. That an individual trans person is critical of the trans movement's objectives doesn't mean they possess vetoe power over anyone who happens to disagree with them.

Added to that the spectacular irony of a 'women's rights' movement that considers women who don't agree with them as illegitimate feminists.

Do you even remember any of your arguments & how they conflict? I can't keep up with the inconsistencies.

Whoever is on this or other threads, I'm never going to take an explanation of what 'feminism' is or isnt by men who spend all day dry humping the FWR pillow just for kicks. Or by women who are pleading for women who know what sex is, to just ignore our basic instincts to just let the men tell us what to do because it is nice to be an 'ally'.

Fuck that shit.

Handy list of orgs that have double think issues.
https://notinourname.org.uk/womens-organisations-speak-up-against-ehrc-code/

Mature ...