Why do some feminists oppose misogyny but support gender ideology?

[Doodwhatareyou]

I recently ended up in the man hating side of tiktok, which is a place I tend to be in agreement with. I’ve seen several women bravely battle stupid men in the comments who manage to reinforce everything being said.

I’ve seen a pattern though that these women, who seem to be very up on rules of misogyny, and aware of how problematic too many men are, usually have pronouns in their bio, and occasionally will complain about being bullied by terfs.

I’m baffled.

How can they be so up on patriarchal nonsense yet miss the fundamental misogyny in gender ideology. How can they deny the evidence that trans identified men are just as much of a problem for women if not more as they want women’s rights and spaces.

They can make endless videos about how hateful men are because of the way women are treated, and how women have to budge up and make room, yet trans identified men are women, and anyone who says otherwise is a massive bigot. I don’t understand.

It doesn't matter what women look like, they still all go through the same female biological experiences that I described upthread. If a woman is (presumably rarely, and briefly) mistaken for a man, it doesn't mean anything beyond that brief interaction, because she's still a woman down to every cell.

And it doesn't matter how feminine a man makes himself look, he'll never go through any of them. He (general he) should count himself lucky, they're pretty much all uncomfortable experiences.

I think this poster is an advocate for women in the Construction Industry Schene. Seems very invested in their welfare.

Do you not uphold the principle of consent?

I do not consent in taking part in a man’s sexual fetish which is what I would be doing if he is permitted into any single sex space.

I’m also a keen sportsperson and the idea that trans-identifying men should be allowed to enter women’s sporting events is risable.

Solidarity with other groups who are harmed by the patriarchy is more effective against them…& they know this that's why they actively encourage gender critical estrangement from the rest of feminism.

TRA movement is the patriarchy. Created by men for men. Why the fuck should women team up with them. Chickens and foxes don't mix well.

Are you telling me that women should accept biological males in female prisons, refuges, sports for the benefit of womankind? Rubbish.

^They, would very much like us to cease talking about systemic barriers to women's freedom & equality & are weaponising the gender critical movement to do that for them. Why else is it do you think they 'suddenly' care about 'women's rights'? Wake the fuck up.^

Wait - so the right wing men 'they' are weaponising GC activism against women to support the patriarchy and stop us talking about systemic barriers to women's freedom (even though in a lot of the world, single sex provision is one of the ways that freedom is supported), but, the men who say they are women are totally supporting women's freedom and not supporting the patriarchy when they tell us to call ourselves pregnant people, menstruators and birthing parents?

Women asking for single sex spaces so they can participate in society == supporting the patriarchy. Men telling women they can't have them == supporting feminism?

That's some tortured logic.

2+1+1=4

You need an edit.

It was an AI summary so don't praise me too much, but the point stands. I don't get why this is even a discussion between intelligent people. Nobody in recent times has ever thought all feminists or feminism have the same beliefs or values. There isn't one approach to feminism. It's almost an umbrella term at this point.

i am unaware of the evidence you mention

Then you must have been working extremely hard to stay unaware of it. But gender ideology is fundamentally a belief that feelings create reality, that reality is subjective, and that inconvenient facts that would mess with those beliefs are denied and avoided.

So it's fairly pointless trying to have a logical conversation with a believer really.

…….

They’re not really feminists, they don’t understand what it means. They’re usually young, privileged and too stupid to think critically.
They think it’s worse for a man to wolf-whistle or call them “love” than it is for a man to actively campaign to take away women’s sex based rights.

Accepting trans as a legitimate identity & ally in no way compromises the need to manage competing rights. That you need to weaponise this false dichotomy is either indicative of stupidity or bad faith.

weak, ineffective
She can't rely on her feckless son.

2
: worthless, irresponsible
… a feckless maneuver that could only serve to strengthen the enemy …—Simon Schama

If we are so feckles sthat we need a bloke to steer us in the right direction, then we are by definition not feckless. He proves our point every single time.

By he I mean every man that tells us what we should be doing.

Women's right: female single-sex spaces where no males are allowed.

You're right that no other competing right should infringe on that.

We knew it was AI my love. Hence being completely ignored.

If you want people to respond to you, try something that isn't cut and paste bilge

There is absolutely no need for 'competing rights'

Women's sex based rights should not be under any pressure at all.

No human can change sex. No man should feel they have any rights to women's single sex spaces, services, sports.

Men can express themselves how they want in the full knowledge that they cannot change sex and women's sex based rights must be upheld.

There is nothing particularly complicated about this

#Notallwomen….agree.

What a horrible comment.

Men are not women

Luckily, this right is not determined by how many women agree they need it or not. So your #notallwomen is literally irrelevant.

And just like the patriarchy the gender critical movement won't accept women are not a monolith. These two sure do have a lot in common.

You see back when the trans movement started to become more vocal it was women and feminists that were sympathetic, welcoming, open and accepting. It wasnt until TRAs revealed a whole set of demands and expectations that undermined women's rights and safety that the pushback started. If TRAs had just fought for a legitimate identity I would have been with them. What they actually wanted was to claim to be women and be treated in the exact same way as biological women.

Literally no one has said women are a monolith.

Women not being a monolith doesn't make men women

Oh yeah, in the UK it solely depends on daddy patriarchy's interest.

I'm not a movement. My critique is of the feckless direction of GC movement as a whole.

Are you clear on what a ‘movement’ is? It’s lots of individual s either a common belief or aim working together. So I’ve asked you ‘what are you doing’?

Also ‘feckless’ - really?

No dice. The GC movement is effectively scuttling women's advocacy for other more important causes on behalf of the patriarchy so its a feminist duty to expose & resist this sabotage.

Can you show us your workings here? How did you make the jump from us advocating for sex based women’s rights to us ‘scuttling women’s advocacy’? How is fighting for our words and keeping men out of women’s spaces working on ‘behalf of the patriarchy’?

You are aware that the patriarchy is run by men and that so called ‘transwomen’ are also men?

Solidarity with other groups who are harmed by the patriarchy is more effective against them…& they know this that's why they actively encourage gender critical estrangement from the rest of feminism.

What other groups are harmed by the patriarchy? You can’t mean men with a gender identity (also sometimes referred to as ‘transwomen’) as that would be a really strange idea.

The only people encouraging estrangement and conflict among women are people who espouse the views you are repeating. I’m not sure why.

Why? How do you see removing the legal and practical protections that are unique to women helping women? How does having a policy that lets any abusive male into a rape shelter as long as he calls himself a woman help women? I find your views incoherent.

Also, are you lonely?

" Feckless" implies purposelessness.

I can only speak for myself, though I'm pretty certain I also share the same strength of feeling and determination as others, in that repelling the forces of transgender ideology is my one, major political commitment at present; and has been for a good number of years.

I can certainly say it is in no way feckless; rather it is driven and totally committed.