Why do some feminists oppose misogyny but support gender ideology?

[Doodwhatareyou]

I recently ended up in the man hating side of tiktok, which is a place I tend to be in agreement with. I’ve seen several women bravely battle stupid men in the comments who manage to reinforce everything being said.

I’ve seen a pattern though that these women, who seem to be very up on rules of misogyny, and aware of how problematic too many men are, usually have pronouns in their bio, and occasionally will complain about being bullied by terfs.

I’m baffled.

How can they be so up on patriarchal nonsense yet miss the fundamental misogyny in gender ideology. How can they deny the evidence that trans identified men are just as much of a problem for women if not more as they want women’s rights and spaces.

They can make endless videos about how hateful men are because of the way women are treated, and how women have to budge up and make room, yet trans identified men are women, and anyone who says otherwise is a massive bigot. I don’t understand.

Even using this phrase "women sometimes still nearly die in childbirth" (my emphasis) is spectacularly naive. Childbirth will always be dangerous for women. It is a seismic biological process, fraught with many many things that can go wrong, often horrifically wrong. Only an ELCS under GA takes away some of the unexpected, but still comes with risks. There will literally never be a future in medicine when childbirth is risk-free.

Again, it is easier to understand this if you've given birth yourself, and I'm sorry if that sounds patronising.

And exactly how is the gender critical movement 'helping' with loo policing?

It's liberal feminists who achieved all the modern gains of political and civic rights, workplace protections, access to education reproductive autonomy and freedom.

How dare GC's even imagine they are in the same category of effectiveness given their dogged domination of the political & media space soaking up all the public attention effectively silencing all other worthy feminist advocacy.

Naviety
Because their mate is Trans and a nice person (most orobably are. Of the three ive known, 2 were nice, one im on the fence about and one was a horrible bully)
Because they have been fortunate enough and young enough not to exlerience misogny yet.

You mean, the real world feminist problems that have dramatically improved over the last century? In huge part thanks to feminism indeed? Those real world feminist problems?

Also: no males in female loos is also a real world feminist problem. So you're making no sense.

I totally agree. I can see how my question came out wrong. I meant it more in the sense of, "Why would it be GC women's specific burden to ensure that women don't die in childbirth, rather than generally everybody's?"

GC's don't give two shits about women's bodies. If they did they would be aiming their formidable political power & attention towards real problems like domestic & sexual violence.

The only interest they really have in women's bodies is policing them.

It's utterly perverse.

Just for the record: I've given birth. I had an emergency CS. I didn't nearly die myself, but my baby could have. So yeah, I know how dangerous childbirth is, and how quickly things can go wrong 😨

But hold on, I thought you said GC feminists were irrelevant. So how can they also have formidable political power. You're not making much sense. How do you know feminists are not focussing on many issues at once? You do know women are famed for their multitasking skills… or maybe that’s something only women understand.

Two words for you: Beira's Place.

I said their actions were ineffective in terms of more pressing feminist problems not their political & media power.

GC's multitasking? One trick pony is more like it…& a cheap trick at that.

How do you know what "GCs" are doing? There are many gender critical women who are tirelessly working in all manner of fields focused on women and girls. But what many of them have found is that as gender ideology took hold in the 2010s they could no longer focus on women and girls, they had to be "inclusive" of men who identify as women. And the data which is crucial to show the disadvantages women still face is corrupted and unreliable because the meaning of words like "women" and "female" no longer have a stable, biological meaning.

It is gender ideologues who have made this about toilets. In reality it is about the words we, women, adult human females, use to describe and organise ourselves. If we can't have those words then feminism is dead.

their dogged domination of the political & media space

It's nice to know that we're doggedly dominant. I'm sure that's not how it feels for Elspeth Duemmer-Wrigley, having to sit through another week of her employment tribunal. Or Sandie Peggie, facing an appeal.

I'm reminded of the old joke about a Jewish man who reads the antisemitic newspapers, because he likes reading about how Jews own all the banks, control the media, and rule the world.

I'm sorry I misunderstood your initial comment!.

I won't have another but I'm afraid for my dd who will probably go through the same one day (hopefully not as bad). Edit - and I'm sorry for your experience too. Thank you for sharing and I'm sorry to have seemed to prompt that.

I think a lot of this, op's original issue, stems from a wider culture of "you can have whatever you want, modern science can overcome biology". I believed it all too when I was younger.

And it is almost true. We can do all sorts now with modern science and technology- change what we look like, our weight, delay menopause, stop periods with a certain pill, etc.

But the one frontier that can never be crossed entirely is female biology, especially birth - either fortunately or unfortunately depending on your view. Men can never become women, it just can't be done. A woman will always be needed to bear a child. This really frustrates certain people.

I just thought of another example of a female experience medicine will never be able to magic away, that is miscarriage. Doctors and researchers have tried and tried to reduce rates but eventually discovered that miscarriage is often due to chromosomal defects - the mother's body "rejecting" an embryo that would otherwise have developed severely disabled or unviable. Biology strikes again, messy and uncomfortable but we can't beat it.

You seem very bitter about women defending their sex based rights. Are you ok? I do hope you have real life support to deal with this. You seem very angry and upset at women.

Oooh that’s a great slogan to use towards TIMs. Awesome! I knew you were a GC really. Maybe was your initial anger against “the GC” fear that if you joined them you would get a personal backlash? I’m so glad you’ve overcome that fear and joined us. Welcome 😍😍😍

Biological essentialism is 'you're a woman therefore you must have babies' it's not 'you're a woman because you have a uterus'

It's saying as a woman (physically, hence 'biological' essentialism), you must behave in a certain way and do certain things. It's actually the same side of the coin as GI - who say that because they behave a certain way and do certain things they must be women (gender essentialism perhaps)

I am also enjoying the idea that GCs dominate politically, and yet are impotent. That we're a new thing, that's achieved nothing in the last 10 years vs. the liberal feminists that apparently got it all done over the last 100 (news to the suffragettes I'm sure). Logic really not a strong point.

You are 'unaware' that males pose a threat to females?

Of course there is! Feminism centres women/ female lives. Men/male people are not women.

You seem a bit late to the issue. I've been here for about 8 years......at the start of which no discussion was permitted anywhere else, and the Labour party were still chanting 'No Debate". The issue was not discussed in any media nor in parliament. Women met in secret, and at each other's homes.

They are just pretending to be feminists. Like the men they support they live in a fantasy world.

Which 'loudest gender critical voices'?
Which policies?

The " most pressing issues" for women and girls are rooted in a lack of consideration or respect for the lives and particular conditions and experiences of female people. Female people are defined as such because of their body and their biology - which is a different to that of males.

If you cannot recognise what it is that makes a women or a girl then you have zero chance of addressing, at root, any of the issues that effect them in particular.Women and girls have been afforded protections on account of their sex in equalities legislation, for good reason. The reasons were not made up or magic'ed out of nothing.

Violence and sexual abuse, maternity provisions, childcare support, and equal pay for equal work ( even if different work to that carried out by males) are some of the biggest issues facing female people.

This is a total fantasy on your part. Men don't have female bodies.

We have single sex facilities,services, categories and provisions primarily on account of the female body...where that body and/or its physical functions can be centred , and also given some protection from male intrusion - permitting for dignity and privacy in public places; and for the reward of female sporting excellence.

Sure, like all 'bad' feminists, I'm bitter about cos playing suffragettes giving the patriarchy what they want….biological essentialism ironically at the expense of women's bodies.

You'd think with all their limitless access to their powerful patriarchal loving right wing strange bedfellows they would put in a word for the truly female oppressed but no its only ever loo policing on repeat that one can only surmise far right political enabling is the actual goal here.

There are plenty of women who post here who have been subject to domestic, financial, emotional and sexual abuse by their trans identified male spouses.