The first step towards an international instrument to abolish surrogacy.

[TheywontletmehavethenameIwant]

"A group of states at the United Nations has launched a political declaration calling for an international moratorium on surrogacy, marking a significant first step in what its supporters hope will become a global abolitionist framework."

UN States Launch Political Declaration for Global Surrogacy Moratorium ━ The European Conservative

"That is a long road. But for those who oppose the buying and selling of babies and the exploitation of women, the fact that states have now placed the issue formally on the UN track is already the point: the market is global, and the response is beginning to become global, too."

I not sure I have any faith in the UN anymore, but hopefully this will gain some traction, I can see it clashing with the Global Left's Utopian ideals though.

Are you writing some shit fiction novel because 🙄

Why? The woman needed money. How has it got anything to do with you?

Would you want to give away your baby for money ?

Great contribution to the debate Mary, we're all so much clearer on the issue now, thanks. 🙄

"Mind your own business."

"Are you writing some shit fiction novel because 🙄"

"Why? The woman needed money. How has it got anything to do with you?"

Coming across as quite defensive there, Marycontrarygarden (and believing attack is the best form of defence).

I think you mean the WOMAN who created them.
Unless you really have no idea what a pregnancy actually is.
If so, I'm not sure you're qualified to be a part of this discussion.

Arenyou saying that if someone believes that trans men can get pregnant (because they can), then they shouldn't be a part of any discussion about pregnancy? Even if they are capable of conception themselves?

Is this your go to for other forms of abuse and exploitation? Or just this one because it suits you?

While I absolutely feel for women who can't bear their own children, surrogacy is still abhorrent. Even the fluffy 'its for my sister' stuff absolutely lays down the red carpet for the disgusting situation in COVID - rows and rows of 'commissioned' (urgh) babies in hotel rooms, many were abandoned because they were too old; surrogates in third world countires left with babies because the buyers refused them due to additional needs; birth mothers left with life changing injuries; young women being coerced to produce & sell babies by partners/families in third world countries for cash.

None of those are fiction.

It depends on the situation surrounding its conception, surely?

I wouldn't see it as my baby if it wasnt genetically related to me and was planned to be raised by other people

I’m really not, that doesn’t make it better, it means there are two women who were happy to give away a human to someone else without offering the child the protection it deserves.

That is one of the things that makes surrogacy so disgusting, a baby isn’t a product that you grow like a tomato, it’s grows in its mothers womb and is removed from her at birth, we do t even allow that for dogs.

It would be fine with the parents who very much wanted and likely already love them.

But the surrogate in most cases isn’t the mother? One of my friends has been a surrogate three times via ivf. The embryos were made by the parents and she just carried them. She sees it as the most rewarding thing she’s ever done. She’s helped make 3 beautiful families. I know it’s very nuanced subject and has been exploited in some countries but it can be a lovely thing as well.

@WhereYouLeftIt I totally agree, those are plausible scenarios.
For a while, my sister couldn't get pregnant, and I lived with a lot of guilt as I was trying to get pregnant with a second child. (All went well in the end and she has two children too). But at the time I wondered if I would have offered to be a surrogate mother. It was all theoretical: I had preeclampsia with my first pregnancy and my sister wouldn't have accepted me taking the risk. But yes, things can get complicated during childbirth, and even a selfless act of love within a family can have unintended consequences and create a lot of pain.

What?
Only women get pregnant. Transmen ARE women and a pregnancy is more than just "carrying" a child. Which was actually my main point.

And, frankly, I seriously doubt anyone would want to use a transman as a surrogate nor would any transman want to be one so the issue would never arise.
FWIW I myself believe a transman can indeed get pregnant- because they are WOMEN.

She did not "just carry them" this rhetoric is so dismissive and unhelpful.
She grew those children in her body. Her body created them - albeit from genetic material from another woman. Those babies were born knowing only her heartbeat, her feelings and her voice.
To paraphrase @Overworkedandknackered , she wasn't growing tomatoes - these are human beings not produce.

And if the parents she sold those children to abuse them or murder them will she feel any responsibility for enabling that?

ITS. NOT. ABOUT. WHAT. THE. ADULTS. WANT. Jesus fucking Christ, will no one put the best interests of the child first?

This is what worries me. It is still too soon to know how babies this has happened to will feel or behave as they grow up.

I also am worried there might be baby farming going on, and some of buyers unsafe.

The woman who gives birth to the baby is the baby’s mother. You try telling the baby that his or her genetic material was other people’s.

i don’t agree. Genetically the baby is nothing to do with the surrogate. The babies went straight to their genetic parents and knew no different. All are happy thriving babies.

I’m sure she would just as she would if she gave a baby up for adoption. She didn’t ‘sell’ them either. They paid for private medical care and that’s it.

And the father. The embryos were made from both parents so genetically nothing to do with her. She sees it very differently. I guess you have to have been in that situation to really know what it’s like. All the babies are thriving and the families are happy.

The child would be fine. All children need are competent adults who love them to raise them. There is no reason to think parents by surrogacy can't be those people. Your outrage doesn't convince me.