Draft Conversion Practices Bill - published

[SingleSexSpacesInSchools]

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/draft-conversion-practices-bill

This is absolute bollocks. Talk about 'emotional coercion'!

The truth always hurts abusive people.

Calling kids needing support from the parents they are utterly dependent on 'emotional coercion' is DARVO, pure and simple.

No, I'm saying your post is emotionally coercive. Trying to tell parents that their two options are to support their child in their transgender identity, or to 'break them' is appalling. Saying if you disagree with a child being trans you are opening them up to street and school violence because they won't be able to access medical transition is disgusting.

When a child says to their parents that they think they are transgender, they are most likely not transgender but are extremely unhappy. There are many reasons why a child who is extremely unhappy may end up thinking that they're transgender, not least because there is a horde of people on the internet (and, probably like you, in real life) who will point them in that direction and then egg them on. Some for fun. Some for self-validation. Some out of a misguided sense of do-gooding. Scammers who want to groom kids into medication that they will personally profit from are also out there working hard.

Of course a parent whose child expresses to them that they are extremely unhappy should give them a hug and say that they love them. But to suggest that validating a trans identity that the child will probably grow out of is the only correct and safe course of action for that child is emotional coercion. One step from saying that they'll commit suicide if you don't.

This bill should be trying to protect children from people like you.

Great response! No points made, just ad hominem.

All I take from your response is that you believe a biological male and a biological female in a relationship can describe themselves as a gay male couple and actual gay people cannot object to that. Lesbians and gay men should basically shut up and let heterosexuals tell us what it means to be gay and represent gay people. You also object to the idea that it's ok to tell a young gay boy who is distressed about gender issues because of his sexuality that it's ok to like boys and he's fine as he is.

You agree that lesbians must be willing to have relationships and sex with heterosexual biological males who claim to identify as lesbians, otherwise we lesbians are no better than racists.

Are you also fine with anyone expressing a different view of you on these issues being prosecuted for "conversion therapy"? Because it's views that are different from yours that this draft bill seeks to criminalise.

"Supporting a child" does not necessarily mean validataing a false premise or imagining.

One of the reasons we are witnessing a mental health crisis amongst young people is not just down to social media, but also because many have lost all emotional resillience and ability to deal with the more difficult aspects and demands of life. The idea that we must protect young people and children from hard truths, or keep them away from anything which is upsetting or challenging, is not supporting them.

Not everything is about feelings. Children need to be able to learn to get their feelings into persepctive. You can appreciate that a child may think they are really of the opposite sex...and give them some space to be with that feeling; but to validate it and tell them that maybe they are the opposite sex is the absolute height of irresponsibility, and failure to parent with appropriate boundaries.

You can take it from my response that I'm repulsed by your ignorant transphobia.

Trans people identifying as gay or straight isn't any kind of emergency. It's just something you don't agree with.

I've literally just finished reading about the evil man who organised the drug-assisted gang rape of his wife. As if you taking offence at how people describe themselves even registers as important, when women have so much pain in their lives, are under so much threat.

You're helping endanger trans people with this poison, enabling the very real violence my child's suffered, while doing absolutely nothing to help women. Yes I am annoyed by that.

No child is the opposite sex to that which they are. Best help them to come to terms with that in any way that works for them.They can experiment with hair and clothes, or with hobbies and activities, but nurturing the idea that they are 'trans' is irresponsible. Anyone doing that is setting them up for great difficulty going forward; and how are they going to view those adults who encourhgaed them once the reality kicks in?

Young trans people are being treated as fair game for rape and sexual assault because ignorant older people are targeting them for hate.

And that's not anecdote. It's happened to my son. He was told it didn't count if he was touched.

Making transphobic attacks on entire minorities will result in pushback, and I dont know why you'd be surprised.

Maybe stop encouraging the far right in their desire to assault and kill trans people and stand beside them. Because attacks on bodily autonomy never stop with one minority. The monster that feeds on hatred only grows hungrier and demands more targets.

You aren't really suggesting that young people are under threat from rape because people have told them that they are the sex they are?

I'd say the biggest threats from sexual assault come from within their own 'community', not from people who reject trans ideology/gender identity theory.
Young women with trans identities are taken advanatage of by predatory older men ( often with a trans or 'queer' identity themselves; and young men with trans identities taken advantage of by the same )

Of course it isn't irresponsible. It's being supportive, and making your child feel less lonely at an incredibly difficult and quite terrifying time in their lives.

I know young trans people who got no support at all. Didn't stop them being trans, but their relationship with their parents is destroyed. You cannot love people you cannot trust - the only solution is to keep them at an emotional distance.

Can you not see how encouraging a child/young person into this special minority identity is actually harming them? Making them feel permanently threatened or unsafe, and having the idea of suicide ideation thrust upon them as part of their condition, or their vulnerable identity.

Agist - I’ll bet a fair proportion of the rape and sexual assault comes from younger people unless you have evidence to the contrary!

and hang on - has anyone one here actually encouraged the far right or anyone to assault and kill transpeople? Really ? Or is that a pile of shit that you have lobbed into the room you believe any old crap?

Haven't read the whole thread but I find this really alarming. Also, doesn't it conflict with Forstater?

Grooming children into cutting contact with their parents is very common among abusers and cults. People should be wary of any people who promote it.

I'm a parent, a grandparent, an ex teacher and also have counselling experience. It is a false sense of support when you encourgae your child to believe something that is essentially not true. Children need firm lines and boundaries or else they don't feel safe or contained. Indulging them in every feeling is not love. You can permit a child to explore and try things out....but not when it results in them holding a false belief about the world in the longer term.

Children are struggling to form an identity. Theye are very susceptible to the messages in their environment. A responsible teacher or parent should hold the line for them.

The suicidal ideation results from untreated gender dysphoria, street harassment, and school violence.

I don't want my kid to be trans, because I have seen how much hurt he's been through. I've also seen him struggle through that to gain qualifications, go through therapy and rebuild his life.

And I know none of that would have been possible without my accepting, supporting and respecting him. I've seen what happened to two trans kids his age who didn't get parental support.

All three remain trans.

It's easier for you to believe in Big Bads creating trans people than to accept the impact transphobia has on young people, that's all. Victim-blaming always comforts.

I'm presuming your son is a biological female. It's terrible your child was abused in such a way, but I'd suggest also considering how young biological females - whatever their "gender identity" - are a main target for those seeking to groom and manipulate young people. Perhaps what happened to your child is more because your child is a biological female rather than because they identify as trans. Young trans-identified people of either sex are also more open to such manipulation because they end up on such dodgy, "trans-friendly" sites online.

As for everything else you say, you take a very histrionic, confrontational approach and pretty much all your points are very difficult to substantiate.

I get that trans and their allies have got used to getting what they want through emotional blackmail and emotional outbursts, but that is over now and you might want to change your tactics. Not bashing everyone who disagrees with you might be a good start.

Anyway, I don't have the time or energy to go over the same points over and over again, so good luck to you.

What about the many children who grow out of their trans identity?

Young people are being groomed on-line into rejecting their families. Invited to joining some kind of 'rainbow' family instead. Family alienation and estrangment is becoming more common, and not just in those who adopt a trans identity. Young people have been groomed to think that they must never encounter resistance or be faced with any boundaries and encouraged to cut their parents off.

And yes, some parents may be genuinely abusive - but most are just trying to do their best and care about their child's future well-being. Being caring, as a parent, entails a great deal of forethought and responsibility...it is not about becoming your child's best friend who validates them at every turn.

Shockingly bad law. As it’s written a parent talking with their child about legitimate concerns with ‘transition’ could be deemed “emotional pressure” and thus criminalised. Insanity.

Is there any gardening in relation to this? Can’t believe what I’ve read and what to help fight this becoming law.

I email a link to this story to my waste of space MP over a year ago with reference to the talk about his party bringing in a Conversion Therapy Ban Bill. I pointed out that if the ban became law this father could be prosecuted and sent to prison.

I've resent it to him pointing out again if he votes for this, he will be party to criminalizing parents who are just trying to be parents.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-13200243/australia-puberty-blockers-father.html

Instead, the bill relies on subjective assessments to define what constitutes criminally "abusive" conduct, stating that this would need to involve "controlling or coercive words or behaviour" or "use of psychological or emotional pressure".
Accusations of psychological or emotional abuse are rife when it comes to transgender identity.

As noted many times, enough TRAs are more than willing to engage in harassment, vexatious litigation and violent protests in response to women saying no. Very often there is an extreme overreaction to even measured comments (literal genocide, denying existence) illustrated by some on this thread. It’s not a stretch to believe that this bill would be a frequently used tool to harass the naysayers and introduce self ID by the back door.

I’m really hating the activists of the Labour Party. Esp with Starmer gone. Leaving centrist voters with no one to vote for. Why have just two issues sent this country into a spiral of insanity? And ironically neither has any kind of real impact for the vast majority of British citizens!

I don't even accept the concept of 'genuinely trans' so accusations of transphobia mean nothing to me.

Dysphoria is, by definition, a mental health issue. The clue is in the prefix 'DYS'.
You don't treat mental health issues by blocking healthy, normal natural bodily processes, or by giving cross sex hormones - to someone whose natural biology is not programmed to be receptive to it without it causing harms.

There is a reason why the child is feeling dysphoric or distressed. That is best explored with appropriate therapy.....and that is certainly not 'trans affirmative' therapy. No child is the 'wrong sex'; they simply are the sex that they are and the most appropriate therapy will help them resolve their dysphoria, or certainly cast some light onto what has caused it.

Your child is just as the relative start of their adult life.......given 10 years, or maybe even fewer, you may very find they desist. Most do; even those who have gone through surgeries such as mastectomies.

Had a quick skim through the thread and didn’t see this mentioned but someone on twitter has just pointed out that based on the way this legislation is written many trans people could be guilty of conversion practices.

Any married woman or man who transitions and then tries to convince their spouse that they are now homosexual would be potentially liable to a fine and 5 years in prison.

They would be applying emotional pressure, possibly also economic and/or sexual and it is easy to see how this could cause psychological distress and harm.