Has there been an influx of TRAs to Mumsnet recently?

[ByTheRiverside]

I'm a long time reader. Only recently started to participate.

I very rarely saw any TRAs on here over the years. But in the past few weeks, I've noticed a lot of them coming here.

You can generally tell by the absolute shite coming out of their mouths, such as being avid apologists for sex offenders.

What's their deal with coming here? Are they saying that their 'womanhood' is reliant on us conforming to their belief, so they're trying to get us to agree with them? If that's so, then welcome!!! You're going to have to get used to reality real quick if you stick around.

Has anyone else noticed this, or just me?

@TransParentlyAnnoyed No one needs to transition to attack us, they do it wherever they want and almost never prosecuted, let alone convicted.

Ah, that old chestnut. As you've been here a while I guess you've seen the stats that transwomen are more likely to commit sexual assault than other men.

That aside, whether their motivation for saying they are trans is in order to attack us is by-the-by. What is relevant is that (some of them) they do attack us. They attempt superficial replication of women (clothes, hair), but on the big stuff - behaviour - they are still men, and the fact they they commit any sexual assaults at all on strangers proves it, and so does the level of aggression they show. "Transitioned" or not, TiMs are men.

What is also relevant is that men don’t need to attack us for their presence in a female space to be harassment.

Trans women dont have the right in the U.K. to enter women’s single sex spaces.

why can’t they use a fourth space?

Everyone who uses them knowingly consents to use mixed sex spaces seems to be why.

Why can't men just use men's single sex spaces, no matter what their beliefs are?

Allies of those who call themselves 'trans' can campaign for men to 'be kind and inclusive' and to welcome them back to their correct sex spaces.

That will give them something constructive to do rather than come here trying to force women to say and do what they want (as men have done since the dawn of time).

In fact that's how you can tell if someone is a man - are they telling you what to do and how to do it? If so, probably a man.

So, the 'Leave transgender women alone' thread has been hidden zapped already.

It does appear that the answer to the question in the OP is 'yes.'

What FWR has never fully got it's collective head around is that trans people are not a homogenous group.

People talk about teams people as 'performing feminity' in swirly skirts and makeup, as fetishistic, as described earlier in this thread. They also talk about big burly blokes in bad wigs and dresses. So trans people are wrong if they put in effort to pass, and wrong if they don't. My trans daughter mostly wears trousers and I have never seen her wear makeup. Does that mean she is poor at being trans? Not even making an effort? Or maybe had she been born female she'd have been a no make-up, trousers and sensible shoes kind of person?

Parents who have children who claim a trans identity are of course, according to many on FWR, to blame; they now have Munchausen by proxy (called FDIA for a number of years, btw) as well. Children are victims of this ideology who must be protected (no problem with that at all) but the moment those innocent victims turn 18 many of them suddenly somehow become perverts and sexual deviants. Parents are still to blame if their adult children decide to transition, even though this is entirely their choice, it is not illegal and parents cannot prevent it. Yet if you accept your youngster in their new identity you are harming them and pandering to them. Whereas if you hold the line and fracture your relationship with your young adult on the grounds that you will never accept they are trans, that isn't harmful too? Youngsters who have grown up being told that gender varies and they may have a different gender expression than their sexed body , told this in school by science teachers, find themselves rejected by their family and that's better for them than being accepting within parameters? Like my parameters: nothing irreversible including hormones until you have spoken to an expert in this area; and you can change your name etc of course, but acknowledging that you are trans female not natal female and this is valid, but different, so there are some things you cannot do and some spaces you cannot use, and I won't pretend you weren't a little boy once. And yet they are so much more relaxed and confident in their new identity. They aren't a different person. They are just happier. And I don't mean euphoric. I don't expect you to understand if you haven't had the experience of parenting a trans young person.

Men just need to stay out of women's stuff.
Most seem to manage it, to be fair.

I missed that! Damn :P

It was a real doozy.

acknowledging that you are trans female not natal female and this is valid, but different, so there are some things you cannot do and some spaces you cannot use

I don't quite understand the rest of your post, but that part is great!

It's the only healthy way to be a trans person. Accept that you are trans. You have a different history and experience. That's reality. I don't get why people think no trans people accept reality. Many do, including my trans daughter.

In my experience, people here have no problem with trans people who accept reality. It's the trans people who insist that TWAW and who want to insert transwomen into female single-sex spaces who are the problem.

@Diverze i think you are generalising too much about the views expressed about the various cohorts of “trans people”

What we are mostly complaining/campaigning about is the infringement of women’s rights and women’s spaces, and the actions of public bodies who have dropped female wording for female body parts, such as uterus havers.

We don’t see reference to sperm producers or other such equivalence.

And as a matter of record women have in the workplace been forced to change in front of males.

Your son is a male how you deal with your situation is your own affair. What i personally object to is when people like you expect me to pretend your son is a woman. I will not do that.

So does your daughter accept that she is still male and, if so, what does she mean when she says that she is a trans female?

I’m honestly not that interested in any of it. I just want men to stay out of female only spaces. It isn’t a value judgement on individual men, they’re all just men, and they are violating our privacy and dignity and putting us at more risk.

No, if you believe any of what you said, I pity you.

You're basically saying you do not believe any male would put on a dress and enter womens spaces with an ulterior motive. Videos show males with erections in dresses in womens spaces. These attacks in this meme alone show that there are men who will find a way to get their thrills. It happens. You truly believe men who put on a dress are sacred castes, don't you? You genuinely believe that. We saw what making sacred castes out of priests lead to....

They may not be 'solely' focused on invading our spaces, but when they invade our spaces even on one occasion, that's enough. It doesn't need to be their goal, for it to be an invasion. And female spaces may be public for females, they are NOT public for MALES.

Males are 50% of the population. They are NOT A MINORITY, even when they put on a dress. In fact, putting on a dress makes the predator and oppressor sex class even more dangerous! The fact you don't understand male (transwomen) vs female (transmen) and the different THREAT LEVEL, and the fact that your attitude to women shows you don't believe women and girls deserve spaces away from the male sex, and your dismissive attitude to 'well, they'll attack you anyway', shows how hateful and toxic trans ideology is, and how dismissive it is to the vulnerable sex.

It's trans woman not trans 'female'.

And all we want is for your male child to stay out of female spaces. That's all we want. That is literally all we want. Nothing more, nothing less. That's not too much to ask surely.

Thinking you can change sex and become a woman because you say so is misogynist.

Thinking that the way you present is reflective of your sex is misogynist.

Telling women they can not define themselves, organise themselves and meet without men is misogynist.

Using terms like uterus haver is misogynist.

These same parallels are NOT happening in the same way when it comes to females transitioning.

These demands and the level of demands are very much assymetric and unfortunately in too many cases are motivated by nefarious reasons. Note here: one case is too many when we speak about the actual impact on women. We are referring to rape, sexual assault, voyeurism and past sexual trauma. No woman or girl - not one - should be sacrificed to this because a male has 'hurt feelings' or is looking for validation. If males are at risk because of a trans identity, that's a male problem and should remain a male problem to be resolved by men rather than creating a more significant problem for women.

If the purpose of a meeting is about confidence building, highly focused on bodily function or social involvement for those women and girls who would otherwise self exclude for whatever reason then yes, a group has a legitimate aim to be single SEX not gender. Group dedicated to transpeople exist and should be used by those needing support not validation.

Women are not support humans and should not be used as crutches for validation. It is misogynist and coercive.

As has been asked before on these threads, how many women and girls do you think are acceptable as collateral damage?

The answer is no.

Your prattling nonsense on misogyny is ignorant and offensive.

Yes, I’ve definitely noticed this.

No, that's not too much to ask. She doesn't use female spaces.

However that's not all 'you' want.
'You' on this thread want me to stop "arranging my life around non reality" (which makes no sense; the reality is that my young person identifies as trans)
'You' believe I am a bad parent who, because I have decided to support my young trans adult have "given in to (my) children's every demand as we read their cries of ‘you must all go along with my child’s delusion or you’ll make them sad’"
'You' make comments about trans women like "they only want to be left to take photos, masturbate next to women and rifle through the sanitary bin in peace!" - surely you understand that is pretty offensive to ordinary transpeople and their families? And yes I get that has happened. It is also true that some Pakistani heritage men were involved in sex trafficking and CSA rings; we would be very inappropriate to say you can therefore not trust any Pakistani man around children as "they only want to be left to rape them and hand them round their friends to abuse in peace!". We don't define a whole cohort by their worst members. (And no, I am not advocating for a breakdown of single sex spaces).
'You' make comments like saying being trans is a "Degenerate lifestyle" in which trans people "spend all their time on computers because they can only pretend not to be their sex on the internet."

Can you not demand single sex spaces without all the prejudiced generalisation about trans people, their motives, their parents' motives? Is that too much to ask?

Adding in, in response to Red toothbrush

I do think recent teaching that one literally becomes indistinguishable from a born woman and anyone recognising one's transness or misgendering you is committing a deliberate hurtful crime is unhelpful.

Recognising one is trans and therefore different but valid is the only way to be mentally well after transition imo.

Can you not demand single sex spaces without all the prejudiced generalisation about trans people, their motives, their parents' motives? Is that too much to ask?

Sure, I've seen some generalisation. It's inevitable, wherever hurt and angry people are gathered. Victims sometimes lash out irrationally.

But as a rule, people around here only seem to call out those trans people who need to be called out. For example, everyone around here makes a difference between "trans kids" who are clearly searching for themselves, and too many of the much older transwomen who are acting in a sexualised way. Saying the latter exist and are sexually motivated doesn't mean the former are guilty by association.

You've posted a fair bit of 'prejudiced generalisation' there yourself @Diverze

@Diverze You're completely wrong. We are entirely aware that there are various different groups caught up in this ideology and discuss it frequently.

For some it is sexuality.
For some it's a way of gaining privilege in sport or access to women's spaces e.g prison often for nefarious purposes.
For some it is presentation/style like goth.

For some it is trauma.
For some it is body dysmorphia.
For some it's a trend.

For some it's linked to rigid thinking related to neurodiversity.
For some it's parental homophobia that makes being gay an issue.

For some it's parental rigidity around sex stereotypes which means they have led their children to the false belief that there is something wrong with them.

Lots of diversity there.