Organisations refusing to give their single sex spaces policy - David Lloyd for example

[SingleSexSpacesInSchools]

I have been trying for a long time to get a written policy out of David Lloyds for about a year. they are still refusing to do so.

Anyone got any suggestions? And What other orgs are refusing to do it?

Is this the next trench we have to fight in? Getting the damned thing written down?

I'm not getting any support. Thank you for your kind message and the link. Really appreciated.

Just for the record they have not demanded anything nor threatened anything.

@UndertheCedartree DL, and others, allow men who identify as female to enter women’s single sex spaces.

these men do not have to have had any surgery or indeed be taking any hormones. They just have to say they’re female.

how do I know whether they are “genuine” trans people or not?

I can’t be behind a locked door with a man on the other side of it. I’ve talked about it before on here but as I say ad nauseum now even boring myself but I feel it is important to say it - I’m not allowed to describe why here as it is deemed by MNHQ to be too upsetting for others to read.

why should I have to leave a space that is ostensibly single sex for females because a man has decided he identifies as female and wants to use the female single sex space?

But they are genuine. No one can say they’re not. We’ve been told soooo many times that no one would pretend to be trans and to believe people when they say they are trans. There is no “genuine” trans. There are only people who for some reason cannot accept their sex. I do feel sorry for your child, but unfortunately the TRA have made existing as a person with a trans identity a lot harder.

Let's go easy on UnderTheCedarTree, it sounds like they're trying to negotiate a very difficult situation

So am I.

so are lots of people.

I feel really sorry for their child that they’ve been sold a lie. I’m sorry that their child finds life so very difficult.

I just can't believe that a trans person would be beaten up in a David Lloyd changing room. It's members only, they know who is in the building, they have reception staff, cleaners often operating in the changing area.....

That is very strange given the signs up in the changing rooms and the availability of a mixed sex room.

Of course you can't know which is why some men use it to gain access to women. Hence the need for single sex changing rooms. I was just saying imo someone genuine wouldn't do that. It is just my opinion based on my experience with my own child. The last thing she would want to do is make others feel awkward or scared when she understands feeling that herself.

Again, I'm so sorry for your experience, I really do empathise. And as I have tried to say I nor my child thinks you should have to leave.

Do you really believe that? I don't. I've been in a situation where someone was pretending. Some men will do whatever they want to target women.

Well, I suppose for me my child not being able to accept their sex is what makes them trans. And honestly with the way men behave maybe this is part of the problem!

I agree, I hate the TRA movement. I don't believe those people are genuine, personally. I just wish people wouldn't assume I or my child have the views of the TRA movement. They have highjacked a very real difficulty for their nefarious aims, imo.

I would say you have a skewed view of how male people with transgender identities behave.

And I am sure you are aware that it is not up to you, or me, to arbitrate who is and isn’t ‘genuine’.

Yes. Yes they will. Even claiming to be women. So how do women know which men are men claiming to be women and which men are men claiming to be men claiming to be women?
Of course theTRA are genuine transpeople. Why would they not be? they are genuine as anyone claiming a trans identity.

I know, it was just my opinion which has obviously been influenced by my experience.

We don't know. Why would they not be genuine. Because some men will do anything to reach their aim. They will use any group of vulnerable people.

You said I (and people like me) could use a cubicle.

David Lloyd allow men into women’s single sex spaces if they identify as female.

I can’t describe what it will do to me to hear a man outside a door I’m in when I’m vulnerable.

I can’t tell who is a “genuine” transperson and who isn’t.

I won’t even be able to see them. I’ll hear their voice.

what if I’m changing in the space and a trans gender identifying man enters whilst I’m already in the open changing room getting changed? What am I supposed to do?

why is the answer always for women to move aside?

I didn't. I said women with children could use the single cubicles in the family changing room if they wanted privacy. Not that someone with trauma could who presumably wouldn't be in the family changing room in the first place.

You don't need to keep explaining yourself. I understand trauma as I have it myself.

The family room is open to both sexes so I'd suggest not using that space if you don't want to be around men.

I've not said women should move aside. I've said women should have a single sex space.

But the trans ideology is determined to erode single sex spaces isn’t it? I mean, it’s the sexist, misogynistic men claiming to be women who demand access because “they are women”. If you accept any male can “live as a woman”, you open the door to this.

TRAs are determined yes.

But that's not relevant to a family changing room open to men and women.

I can’t go into a cubicle. The only place
left in the gym I go to is the open area.

where the actual Jeff am I supposed to go?

Well it kind of is. Because of the TRA pushback, more and more places are making facilities unisex. Which means no single sex spaces. So thanks to the evil trans ideology, women like @Taztoy suffer. And all because men decided they would prefer to be women. It’s not just toilets and changing rooms though is it? It’s hospital wards, prisons and rape crisis centres. The places where you don’t get “family changing”. You seem awfully naive

In the women's changing room.

Where men are allowed.

and I’ve explained why I can’t do that.

I can only talk about my gym. There is a family changing room with separate rooms containing changing area and shower. Then there are a single sex men's room and single sex women's room. The comment was about children running all over the women's changing room. Nothing to do with trans ideology.

I also have trauma from CSA. Psych wards have been mixed for years way before trans ideology, I have suffered multiple SA on a ward. But noone talks about that because it doesn't affect them. You seem naive to me.

Not sure why you are being combative with a woman that suffers like @Taztoyand believes women should have single sex spaces. But to suggest women haven't been suffering for years before trans ideology is naive. Maybe fight the real villains...the men?

The men who want to come in to women’s single sex spaces you mean?

Those men? The ones who tell everyone they’re women and expect us all to pander to their pronouns? Those ones?

Why do you think I am being combative with Taztoy. I totally agree women need single sex spaces. And we had them until some sexist misogynist men decided they wanted into those spaces. Personally I believe anyone who follows the regressive and oppressive trans ideology is contributing to the removal of women’s rights. Women were suffering for years, and things were finally getting a bit better, but males gotta male innit? We are fighting the real villains, the males who decided they could be comes women and bully women into giving up their rights to single sex spaces.

I don't know why you expect me to solve this for you? If your gym doesn't have a single sex women's changing room then leave and find one that does. Or speak up for it? Sadly, these things aren't always handed to us on a plate. Try being sectioned on a psychiatric ward with men when you have no choice to be there and can't just leave. Try being SA abused multiple times in that situation. I'm sorry about your trauma but you aren't the only one. At least there are lots of women speaking up about single sex changing rooms. Noone cared about mixed psychiatric wards when I was there. Most don't now. Women have only started talking about general hospitals as they started to become mixed and it began to affect them. It's been that way in psychiatric hospitals for years and years! When well enough I fought for the wards to become single sex at my local hospital. Honestly, noone has to go to a gym. Women on psychiatric wards have no choice.