Is this racism?

[cooooola]

Basically I was at the pub in the pub and nobody was behind the bar.

I was first in line.

An elderly couple come and and then another man who slams his glass down.

When the bar lady asks "who is first"? I replied me.

The elderly couple say "we have been waiting ages".

And the man next says "I didn't see her".

I felt this was due to me being mixed race.
I felt quite intimidated.

I only popped in for a drink whilst OH has the kids.

I feel any shaken up as the only ethnic person in the place.
AIBU

Well you did accuse the whole of the UK of being racist.

Are you including British citizens of colour in that?

Healthy debate is very important. It’s far more useful to have a dialectical debate rather than an eristic one. I have been guilty of getting worked up during debates in the past, I still do now occasionally but I will go back over what I have typed before I post it and try to remove anything that may come across as too emotional or be interpreted as point scoring.

I find the shutting down of debate, whether it be the government or individuals, worrying and frustrating.

@MissBeans83 at 10.56
If that couple had called you an obvious racist name, you would still get responses on here defending it, by those whose EQs remains stunted.

No one other than you has mentioned name calling....So you're basically arguing with your own point???

Absolutely bizarre

What is bizzare is that you clearly failed to read the post I was quoting. Or I could give you the benefit of the doubt and assumed you missed it?

This person is constantly spreading racist drivel on MN

I noticed. And her sidekicks are just as bad. When challenged, they maintain they keep their calm in their replies, yet they try every tactic in their posts to hide their rage at being called out on their racism.

It did become amusing.

I am so sorry @cooooola that this happened to you. Trust your gut, always. Don't let anyone on this forum or otherwise gaslight you into thinking that what you are experiencing isnt what you are experiencing.

This site is awful for casual racism and it usually goes unchecked by the moderators, despite many having tried to raise it over the years. There is the black mumsnetters section, where you would get better support although sadly many trolls hang out there too.

I would go as far as to say there is nothing even casual about it.

Think it's best not to feed them anymore folks. I'm out.

And they also don’t like data. As the data clearly demonstrates the complete opposite of what they say

And when challenged on it, they attempt to twist it like there is something wrong with the other person's comprehension. Or...."the race card being played causes division"🙄

Translation: "When you attempt to challenge my ingrained racism, it pushes me into a corner so I therefore have no option but to turn it back on you"

Absolutely! Although I’m now off to look up eristic - haven’t heard that before :-)

I used to get worked up too but the more I thought and discussed, the more clarity I found in my views.

I am sad about the division and upset that is being caused, largely by the very people tasked to run the country. I feel like talking is the antidote.

May I remind you that you have accused the whole of the UK population of being racist.

What is your definition of racism? And how does OPs experience fit that?

What examples have you got of the government causing division?

My understanding is that in an eristic debate, the soul purpose is to ‘win’ by any means necessary. Whether that be by berating your opponent or using unnecessarily emotive language, twisting words, using hyperbole, talking about how educated they are or referring to other credentials they hold that must make their view the ‘correct’ one (which as we know isn’t logical)

I prefer a dialectic debate because there are no ‘losers’. If I retain respect for my interlocutor(s) and try to understand their view points as well as articulating my own, keep an open mind I will either walk away having broadened or even changed my view on something OR I will become more secure in my views having had them stand up to scrutiny.

It’s not always easy, and as you have experienced multiple times, it’s almost impossible to keep the debate dialectical when other participants are trying so hard to make it eristic.

I guess what it comes down to is, what do people want to get out of the discussion? For me, I am on the same page as you as to the ultimate aim of talking. That it is hopefully an antidote to all the hate and division and will perhaps cause us all to realise that we have more in common than we don’t. And if we don’t turn on one another, we can’t be as easily controlled. For others, if their sole aim is to be inflammatory or to ‘win’ a debate at all costs rather than to win hearts and minds or expand their world view, then obviously an eristic debate will work to serve that purpose. I can’t understand what the point of that is though.

Can you tell me what your definition of racist is first please?

That is a broad answer. Racism comes in various different forms, and there are infinite amount of examples.

One being on here, the invalidation of a non white person who wrote about her experience. That is actual racism in itself.

Racists tend to push back and refute, because facing reality is something that they lack emotional resiliance in.

@MissBeans83
But OP posted on an AIBU thread and asked the question “ was this racist”?

Some posters including me are trying to reassure her that a bloke slamming his glass on the counter is not indicative of a racist act. It’s indicative of having had too much to drink/being in a bad mood/being heavy handed. In fact he spoke to OP beforehand!
The older couple said they were there first. Maybe they were and had just stepped away. Maybe they were chancers. Why was that interpreted as racism? The rude guy said he didn’t see who was first so he wasn’t backing up the older couple… he didn’t want to get involved.

Maybe OP sees every little annoyance in life as racist but it is not logical…

MissBeans83 · Today 14:06
That is a broad answer. Racism comes in various different forms, and there are infinite amount of examples.

What does that actually mean ?

To be honest I don’t think the OP has posted in good faith

Her example is so bizarre as to be laughable

She’s using a fake scenario instead of being open and just wanting a discussion as to whether the UK is a racist country. She lists all these countries which are oh so much better than the UK.

As a Brit albeit with foreign immigrant parents this makes me really sad. And cross.

What part do you have trouble understanding?

Which word?

I’ve done my EDI training at work and it dismayed me every time an example of racism was given like this when it could just as easily be attributed to misogny, ageism, classism or just downright gormlessness or rudeness.

My first thought when you said ‘older man’ was misogny. Many older men don’t ‘see’ females.

Equally, maybe he just didn’t see you. 🤷🏻‍♀️

I’m not denying your lived experience op but I am asking you to have some perspective. Not everything is to do with race.

How weird. A racist incident happens and you are so far in denial, you accuse her of lying.

Does she have to have the N word used against her for you to authorise her complaint?

You are beyond arrogant. 🙄

Blame the victim too for being raped do you? As the two mentalities are usually cut from the one cloth

Yet here you are denying her lived experience. You have simply just slightly soft soaped it.

@MissBeans83

Even if it happened as she said the likelihood is that there were no racist motives!

Your attack on me should be reported by the way. But I suspect you are merely an agitator with no real comprehension skills.