Another Guides one with inappropriate girl guide leader and advisory committee member

[testmatchspecial]

https://www.dailymail.com/news/article-15953295/transgender-burlesque-dancer-shaping-future-Girl-Guides-zealot.html

He resigned after the ban but has an advisory role on supporting trans girls and women. It’s not clear when the advisory role started.

That'll be GATE.
They've had Alan "Sarah Jane" Baker at their events, and Matthew "Melissa Poulton" Viner.

A question that comes to mind in this sort of situation - if one of the old-fashioned type of women had similar on her social media - would GG have sacked her from her role?

Follow up question - if a man (again of the old fashioned type) was doing similar in say, Scouts - would he have been sacked?

If the answer to both is yes, and yes (as it should be) - why has it not happened in this case?

creating special categories of people to whom the usual rules do not apply is a dangerous thing.

This is almost cartoonish at this point. You couldn’t make it up.

Indeed. And if you did make it up, everyone would be up in arms yelling, "You're just fear-mongering! That will never happen!"

I wasn’t in the Guides (and I went to one Brownies meeting and never returned as it just wasn’t for me) - but my question is this: if I had, and my DM had got so much as a glimpse of either of those two brave and stunning types, I’d have been removed at such speed the ground would have burst into 🔥

I cannot, cannot understand how anyone can look at who’s supporting/driving/advising all this and think 'yep! It’s all totally fine and lovely! Nothing to see here!'

I've personally seen organisations started by and for transmen getting slowly invaded by transwomen, and ending up disbanding when the transwomen made it clear that now it was all about them or not at all.

Thank you for including this example @Seethlaw . It’s very telling. Everything has to be about them. Trans or not trans.

Though, I feel that the older men who go to the lengths to claim identifies as women are specifically driven to erase, dominate, and control women and it’s this evidently significantly large group of men that sought to infiltrate women’s groups along with the judiciary, healthcare, education and politics etc. I’m guessing the infiltration of women and girl’s groups would’ve been especially satisfying. They’ve been extraordinarily successful in general.

Conversely, they’ve been as successful as they have only because so many women still need to centre men’s wishes, including their paraphilias. It’s depressing after all these many years of feminist work, but it certainly is a common pattern. Though as a previous poster reminded us, in the case of GG’s, there will be many grassroots volunteers quietly pushing back on safeguarding issues. It’s the leadership that is clearly and firmly responsible for this mess.

Would you want a female leader to step down from their role if they did Burlesque in their spare time?

Let’s stop pretending a male that identifies a woman doing burlesque has the same motivations and safeguarding risk as a female doing burlesque. We have the MoJ stats showing otherwise.

What are the motivations for a woman doing burlesque ?

Would I have concerns about someone who shared images such as this on their social media, and mixed highly sexualised and erotic performance with caring for children?

Of course I bloody would, and so would most sane workplaces where the work involves children!

Since your question and responses to it would potentially derail this conversation I suggest you start a new thread if you wish to discuss why women do burlesque

Yes if they did so in fetish gear and their routine includes sucking a whip, giving it a hand job, and rubbing it against their groin area etc.

What is your view? Seems to sort of imply that you’d think this would be acceptable if a female leader did this?

Tbf that wasn’t actually burlesque. He was wiggling his hip and licking a riding crop in a sexualised way.

Yes, if a female leader was on social media doing that I’d expect her to step down.

I don’t think it is generally ok for adults to mix adult entertainment and child related roles. It leaves too many blurred lines. It is not for the benefit of the children.

Is there one?

Probably but they aren’t in fetish gear, they’ll be down the community centre in their trainers and leggings.

But yet again we have a man ruining things

Because they’re dim, privileged and gullible.

I sent my sister (long time guide leader) a photo of Sulley. She said that the photos would be inappropriate for any guide leader and we shouldn’t judge. The fact that there are (presumably) a minuscule number of women of that type who would be attracted to guiding and that seedy men with fetishes are highly likely to be attracted to it, for all the wrong reasons, didn’t come into the equation at all.

A friend of hers had transitioned their son, aged 3 so presumably adhesion to the ideology was a requirement.

The fact is that fetishes almost always belong to men, rather than women.

And men constitute the predator class.

I would have an issue if a woman was displaying a highly sexualised adult hobby or job, licking a riding crop quite openly on social media, and still wanted to work for the GG.

Apart from anything else, there is the issue that the children could easily see it.

But my problem would be more how inappropriate it is, with a potential lack of understanding of safeguarding and boundaries. Not that the woman would be a predator.

That's the difference. I would look at a woman and think inappropriate. I would look at a man and think red flag.

And of course, that doesn't mean that some men are merely inappropriate and not predatory, and some women are predatory and not merely inappropriate.

But the difference in sex offending falls down very sharply on one side.

Thinking about it...Yes.

I was both a Brownie and a Guide. The organisation was supposed to provide role models for strong, independent women. I wouldn't want a child of mine being led by someone who put on a show of sexist stereotypes.

No-one working or volunteering with children should be sharing images of themselves on social media engaged in sexualised activity. It would demonstrate inappropriate boundaries.

Although on that subject, have you ever heard the "joke", how do you tell if someone's vegan? Don't worry, they'll tell you? Well, I've never met one of these loud vegans, but I've met an awful lot of women who announced they were into burlesque upon introducing themselves at unconnected events. One memorable time was the icebreaker evening at an Italian conversation class. Then she interpreted my politeness as a cue to get me to come along to her next show!

So none of the ones I'm met would be suitable as Girl Guide leaders, as they would be unable to keep it separate from Girl Guiding!

72 new guiding badges, including kindness, laughter and calm spaces

If that's true, how have the Guides not all died of boredom?

Admittedly my Firefighter and First Aid badges were probably a bit lightweight for tackling a genuine emergency but at least they were interesting.

Well, something had to replace the retired 'Hostess' badge.

I can see why DD gave Guides a term and packed it in, saying it was "all cupcakes and talking about feeeeelings". I thought she'd just struck unlucky with our particular pack.

I’ve had my first ever deletion. Must have said something upsetting to men.

My main point was that any guide leader should be investigated if they posted the same stuff on social media that Paula Southin did.

And he should never have been in the guides, let alone advising them.