Is being trans a 'disease'/mental health issue?

[SolveMyPrombles]

I'm asking on this board for deliberate considered responses so please do share your thoughts.

A lady on a local group has described being trans as a mental illness that should be treated with compassion not pandered to because it's a disease.

Looking into it more deeply I believe she's wrong and there is no current diagnostic manual that agrees with her take.

What do you think?

Or any idea what is it like to be faces with a smaller man of Asian origin and more naturally delicate features, and beautiful make up and nails, who still triggers the internal radar. I many not have felt threatened by these two individuals (years apart) but I definitely clocked they were male within a second causing me to take a second look as I reached for the hairdryer. It made me uncomfortable but I felt, as it seemed they had had all the surgeries, that I ought to be kind and compassionate to the obviously tortured soul who had undergone such procedures in order to ‘be’.

I now see this was the beginning, because by passively consenting to these persons in my space I was allowing the door to be pushed open for the 6ft, hairy, summer dress with DM-wearing, lipsticked chap that worked for my husband briefly and availed himself of women only facilities.

I can always see when a person is male. Every time. Every TV programme I spot them instantly, in person, in the distance crossing the road on the way to the local art college. It may be because I am AUDHD and may thus have a heightened pattern recognising neuro-profile, it could be because I grew up in a home where DV was served up with breakfast, it may be because I was sexually assaulted as a child. I am willing to concede that, perhaps, as a result I am a little unusual and that my innate polygenic skill may be more finely attuned than many of my female peers… but the evidence of threads like this, the women I meet and know, would suggest that they are just as astute.

I feel for anyone who has undergone this process, I do. But it is not my responsibility to accommodate them in single sex spaces or to consent on behalf of others. It is not my place to order the hierarchy of the needs of, say, Jewish or Muslim women or SA survivors who have a right for multiple diverse reasons to guaranteed single-sex spaced. As a society we need to make accommodations - and this may require additional 3rd spaces along side the disable facilities or more single use facilities. As a demographic of men, trans women need to accept that they are going to have to bend and work with us to find alternative provisions. But they can kid themselves all they like that they pass, while we smile politely and demure. After all, demurring to men is what we’ve been socialised to do in order to keep ourselves safe. And a man cannot appreciate that.

Stop lumping gay people in with the tq+

Trans ideology is regressive and homophobic as fuck (telling people that they cannot be same sex attracted, they have to be same gender attracted otherwise they are genital fetishists).

Its a shame that your sensitive little heart doesn't hurt for all the damage done to women and children and gay people in the name of this ideology. Funny how be kind only ever goes one way.

And men are very good at not letting themselves notice when a woman is bending herself out of shape to accomodate him.

Some marriages last for decades that way.

I feel like they've got it right when they refer to me as a woman because they are reading my visual and social reality accurately.

Or, they are reading your visual appearance and doing that instant decision making that goes ‘Uh-oh, a man presenting as a woman. Am I in a situation where making it clear I know he is a man cause danger to me? eg. Alone with him in a changing room. If I am in a dangerous situation and I call him out (excuse me, this is the women’s changing room’) will he accept and leave or will he turn aggressive with the potential of harming me or causing me to get into trouble? Hmm. He’s in a place he knows he shouldn’t be, so it’s likely he’ll kick up a fuss at the very least if I challenge him. I’ll say nothing. But keep a close eye and get out of here asap. Or, if I am in a non-physically dangerous place, eg work, a social situation, will my calling him out ostracise me from the rest of the group? I’ll keep quiet as I need this job/like being with this group of friends, but I’ll have to be on my guard and not say he/him or in anyway make it known that I know he is a man”

What you see is a woman who doesn’t make any reference to you being a man and you assume it’s because she doesn’t know you are a man.
🙄

@DumbfoundedAndUnhappy I wonder how women react to you in a lonely street in the dark. If a woman ever crosses to the other side of the street when you're coming up behind her, or heading towards her, it's because she's recognised you as a man. And how do you react when you see a woman walking towards you along a pavement? Do you notice her and move out of her way when she's still a long way off, or do you do nothing and assume that she'll get out of YOUR way, and if she doesn't then either bump into her or veer out of her way at the last second? Please report back.

This all sounds so familiar.

what has happened over the past 5 years… says a male person who on one hand recognises that transgender activism has gone too far, yet cannot acknowledge the impact on female people despite so many court cases now, so much fucking media where we are told not to be transphobic and that TWAW.

FFS!

In female toilets in the UK there are signs telling female people that those people that they might perceive as being male should not be made uncomfortable. That the fucking priority is to make male people feel good about using female single sex provisions.

The Victorian state government actually did a video campaign that was designed to shame any female person for recognising a male person is male when they might be presenting as if they were female!

The list is endless.

But apparently, the past five years of social conditioning attempts have simply not happened. Apparently, there has been no societal pressure to make sure no male people ever feel uncomfortable when they say they are girls or women.

And apparently, we are yet again being gaslighted that none of us can correctly and accurately identify a male person’s sex.

How about no male person accesses female single sex provision OR demands, even passively, that female language is used for him?

How about when a male person rejects using the single sex provision for their own sex, that they accept it is their decision to not use that provision and do what so many female people with transgender identities do - plan their day to make sure they have a solution that is not accessing the female single sex provision?

How about NO male person feels they should get credit for only using female single sex provisions occasionally, when they should not be using them EVER?

What a lie.

What makes you think I wouldn’t notice if people were having double takes when looking at me?

You must be significant taller than average to be scrutinised so much,

For the same reason other men don’t notice when they are taking advantage of women’s politeness and desire to please to make their lives better.

Helleofabore
And apparently, we are yet again being gaslighted that none of us can correctly and accurately identify a male person’s sex.

In my case it isn't quite that simple.

What happens is that I am immediately aware that this person in a dress and slap is not a woman. It's not that I know he is male; I know "she" is not quite right, and not quite female.

It's only when I think a little more carefully (like about three seconds later when I have processed what I am noticing) that I realise "Oh, right, that's because it isn't someone female; it's a bloke."

The interesting thing, to me, is that my DH, who has lots of "friends" on the internet, and has not yet worked out that not all the people there absolutely honest about themselves, will tell me that he knows lots of trans people and they are absolutely fine and he can't see why i am so worried by trans; yet when he meets a TiM in the flesh, as we both quite often do, he avoids him, thinks he is weird, or in some other way quite fails to think how stunning and beautiful this individual is or wish to have any interaction with that person. AT THE SAME TIME as telling me that I am horribly prejudiced, he picks up the same signals as I do, and behaves in exactly the same way: don't offend this man because he is ipso facto a bit nuts and thus totally unpredictable, and we don't want a fuss do we.

Uncanny Valley.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_valley

I think it is very common to end up for female people in the uncanny valley, so to speak, and end up at the same conclusion that you speak of.

It doesn’t matter how we get to the that conclusion, of course. The outcome is the same. Whether it is instant or whether it takes some kind of interaction.

I have poor distance eyesight. I pick up someone’s gait and skeletal proportions before any facial detail registers. And it doesn’t matter what someone is wearing either. As a jogger, I could also regularly detect the person’s gait visually or via sound from behind and correctly identify the runner’s sex category.

This myth that female people somehow can’t correctly identify the sex of other humans is absurd. Whoever started spreading that gem, really did a number on other people who probably need to understand this.

Sure it might not be 100%, but within the population there will be at least one female person who will have correctly identified the sex of a male person who has described himself as a woman. That is the point. It is not necessary for one person to be 100% accurate, the point is that someone will have correctly identified that male person, if you know what I mean.

Snap! RTB.

That is a classic logical fallacy. You only notice the trans people you can spot, so you assume you can spot them all. You have no way of knowing how many trans people you pass every day without a second thought.
Claiming that every single person I interact with is secretly terrified or just acting out of pity is a pretty wild conspiracy theory just to avoid admitting that human beings react to social cues. I know what my actual daily life looks like

As I say. It's impossible for you to admit without admitting you enforce male power and privilege over women.

Thats so ridiculous. I don’t enforce male privilege over anyone

You are doing it on this thread...

I’m enforcing male privilege over you on a public forum on internet? Please explain

This is the irony.

You are telling a bunch of women who say they lie that women don't lie and humour.
You are telling women there is no culture of fear despite all the court cases.
You are telling women that you know what they think.

That's a Big No9 right there.

I didn’t say any of those things. I have no doubt that those things happen. I am sure some of you do ‘lie’ because you’re worried about consequences for not doing that. Not every trans person blends in so of course that happens.

What I did say is that assuming you identify every trans woman as male is a silly thing to believe. If you didn’t recognise them as male, you’d never know right?

You say I’m telling you your experience is wrong, but you’re also doing the exact same thing to me. I’m perfectly capable of recognising how people react to me.

@DumbfoundedAndUnhappy

I have been reading the most recent tweets and I want to clear a few things up.

The secondary sex characteristics which are used to identify women from men are not their genitals or their breasts as these can be augmented. They are the skeletal changes. For males this means broad shoulders, wide necks, adams apple, large hands, narrower carrying angle and a male way of walking. These changes cannot be changed with cross-sex hormones or surgery.

There is a clear societal boundary in female single sex spaces. It is there to protect females safety, privacy and dignity. ANY male that chooses to cross that boundary is automatically a red flag to all women women because they are demonstrating that they do not respect their boundaries and are a danger to them. In addition women have lost their jobs and autonomy for saying that transwomen are male, JK Rowling has been used by the trans-machines as a symbol of hate when she told the truth. Most of us can't afford either financially or socially to be treated like that.

It is documented that females have a superior ability compared to men in determining if someone is male. They can tell much faster and much more accurately. No doubt due to the fact that biggest risk to a female is a male. In mixed company your sex may appear more ambiguous because you will look female compared to other men but in a single sex space it will be very very obvious.

As previously discussed the presence of ANY male (gay men included) causes females some distress. In this situation some females freeze and some females fawn. Someone women have worked out that they can get some social cache with men that this is even a risk to women- these women are not to be trusted. This is because in addition to males being significantly stronger - even post transistion- than females, males simply have more power in society due to the over-representation of males in decision making and influential societa positions. This is relevant because it is much more likely that a male will overlook the concerns of a female to support another male actions.

In summary if you chose to go into a female space- you will be clocked and you will cause distress, discomfort and fear to the women that are in that space. You will be seen as a someone who cannot respect women and you may even be seen as a predator- not because you are trans, but because you are male and have demonstrated you cannot respect women. Women may say they don't mind when you are there, but when they are not around men they all say they feel very uncomfortable.

I don’t believe any of us telling you that you have been correctly identified as being male by at least one female person has claimed to have correctly identified every single male person with a transgender identity that we have come across. although it is possible that some female people may have, but it will take people paying attention to every single person they see during the day and very few people are like to do this. However, when in a situation where it is important to pay attention, or through direct interaction, it is much more likely that people will have noticed.

The point we are making is that it is very unlikely that NO female people have accurately and correctly identified your sex, despite your over confident assertion. It might be that every day some female people correctly identify your sex category. Particularly those who interact with you on a regular basis.

Do you deny that female people have received constant messaging from influential media and organisations that it is transphobic and unacceptable to make a male person uncomfortable when female people come across those male people in situations where the female person feels concerned, fearful or uncomfortable? Really ?

Here is the Victoria Government in Australia shaming women for feeling uncomfortable being alone in a lift with a male person. it is just one segment of the longer ad

I have seen posters in toilets in the UK telling me to not make a male person uncomfortable if I see them in the female toilet.

So… what was that fallacy you are referring to?

oh… hang on .. is it this below the fallacious claim?

”Claiming that every single person I interact with is secretly terrified or just acting out of pity is a pretty wild conspiracy theory just to avoid admitting that human beings react to social cues. I know what my actual daily life looks like”

Please refer to any post that has make the claim that every single person has correctly identified your sex. That claim is purely your own absolutist exaggeration based on falsity.

Or is this how you work it in your thinking? That unless everyone correctly identifies your sex category, no body correctly identifies your sex category?

All you have done though is highlight just how little female people’s needs matter to you. Despite declaring that you are a ‘woman’.

Yep.

it also shows just how very few ‘reasonable’ male people with transgender identities are truly the reasonable people they like to portray themselves as.

Any time you access any female single sex provision you are enforcing male privilege. You should not be using those provisions, yet you do so regardless.

Agreed...

1. because you are bigger and stronger than them so less likely to get push back
2. Because society gives liscence to male over females
3. Because the trans community has terrified women to the point where they are to scared to respond