Is being trans a 'disease'/mental health issue?

[SolveMyPrombles]

I'm asking on this board for deliberate considered responses so please do share your thoughts.

A lady on a local group has described being trans as a mental illness that should be treated with compassion not pandered to because it's a disease.

Looking into it more deeply I believe she's wrong and there is no current diagnostic manual that agrees with her take.

What do you think?

The difference there is that someone taking testosterone as a performance enhancing drug is pushing their testosterone level significantly above the usual level for their sex. That is why the muscle development looks different.

When a trans person takes hormone, the endocrinologist aims to get their level in the normal range for a member of the opposite sex which promotes characteristic development in a similar way.

I never said those changes make a trans woman female. The goal is for it to change secondary characteristics to make the person appear female.

That is all marketing to sell feminising hormone therapy. To men who want to believe they can look like women if they take it.

Try some unbiased factual science:

“Primary characteristics (like the ovaries and reproductive tract) are fundamentally genetically encoded during fetal development, whereas secondary characteristics (like breasts and body fat distribution) require oestrogen to emerge during puberty.”

https://www.asrm.org/advocacy-and-policy/fact-sheets-and-one-pagers/just-the-facts-biological-sex/

So if they recognise they are not female they should stay out of female spaces right?

But the hormones are still exogenous though and do not belong in their body.

Putting female hormones in a male body solely has an aesthetic purpose and no functionalilty.. just like PEDS.

I am not familiar with the regime but I doubt that transwomen have a 4-weekly cycle of FSH, oestrogen, LH and progesterone like women and I also doubt these hormones then get tapered down during 40/50s.

And before you raise it. Yes there will be women that have a difference in these hormones but they have a medical condition that affects the function of their reprodcutive system which requires treatment. This does not make them less female because they have the capability but it is dysfunctional. Transwomen do not have the capability which is what makes them male.

if a man says he is a fish to avoid a crime then he is still a man, so if a man says he is a woman then why does society accept that logic but not the fish ?

Great so you accept that transwomen are not women.

So for you, having some physical features other people associate with the female body is "living as a woman" even when you yourself know your body is not a female body?

That is more or less what I would mean if I said I'm living as a man, yes: that I'm living with a masculinised version of my body according to what society associates with "masculine" - while being perfectly aware I'm female anyway.

Interesting. To me it seems very reactive, very much based on other people's perception of you.

I wouldn't say so much their perception of me as my presentation to them. It's very important to me that I present masculine, but whether they perceive me as a man or as a woman presenting as a man is more or less irrelevant.

Certainly, it sounds like a very different experience to what I understand "living as a woman" to mean from my perspective of simply being female.

Absolutely. I do not pretend to live "as a man" in the way actual men live their own lives. How could I? I neither have a male body, nor have had a male upbringing.

Oestrogen is not foreign to male bodies, and testosterone is not foreign to female bodies. Both hormones exist in different levels for both sexes. It’s the level and dominance of one hormone that determines how your characteristics develop.

I am not familiar with the regime but I doubt that transwomen have a 4-weekly cycle of FSH, oestrogen, LH and progesterone like women and I also doubt these hormones then get tapered down during 40/50s.
You’re right trans women don’t have a 4 week cycle, but neither do women who take HRT. And actually it is pretty normal for the amount of hormones a trans woman takes to be reduced when they reach an older age.

Next you'll be claiming to have menopause symptoms like Mr Tempest.

a human is born either a male or female by natures design ?

Yes:

can you explain how you would turn a male body into a female body ?

You can't, obviously.

and if you cannot explain it then does that mean nature was correct when it made the body ?

No, something went wrong in my case, because my body is female yet perceives itself as male as far as the mapping is concerned. And since I can't change the mapping, I changed the sexual characteristics I could in order to reduce the tension between the reality and the mapping.

They do not belong in female/male bodies at the level being prescribed.

I am not familiar with the regime but I doubt that transwomen have a 4-weekly cycle of FSH, oestrogen, LH and progesterone like women and I also doubt these hormones then get tapered down during 40/50s.
You’re right trans women don’t have a 4 week cycle, but neither do women who take HRT. And actually it is pretty normal for the amount of hormones a trans woman takes to be reduced when they reach an older age.

As said in my post using women who have dysfunctional reproductive system or discomfort cannot be used and an equivalence for a male taking over-prescribed female hormones for aesthetic purposes.

It is for this reason that sex cannot be detemined on presence of sex hormones but on the functionality of those hormones. If the hormones are prescribed to manage the functionality of the reproductive system it is more likely that woman is female, if it is for aesthetic purposes only that person is a man.

We’re talking about different things now. I have never said a trans woman taking oestrogen with the same female hormone level is a woman. It’s just that at that level the bodies respond in the same way.

You made the assertion that sex is determined by hormones not chromosomes which is why a transwomen are woman, and not a man.

I disagree. Sex and therefore gender (which is the social expression of sex) is determined by the capability of reproductive system driven through the functionality of hormones determined by chromosomes.

In women - the fucntionality of the organs of the reproductive system are driven by the production of FSH, Oestrogen, Progresterone and LH. Having those hormones in your bloodsystem doesn't make you a woman, but it is the effect on your reproductive system that does. This is why men can never be considered women regardless of their hormone levels.

I get its tough because the trans-medicalisation started off well-meaning but is so incredibly predatory now. Rather than help people sort out their thoughts from reality and prepare them for life as a trans-person they have simply told them that anyone who disagrees with them wants them dead- which is isolating and abusive.

without modern science no one would be able to be trans ?

I wouldn't say that. It's just that the transition would be purely social, with no medical part.

You made the assertion that sex is determined by hormones not chromosomes which is why a transwomen are woman, and not a man.
You’re going to have to show me where I said that because I don’t believe I did that. I said the development of secondary sex characteristics is driven by hormones and that is it.

get its tough because the trans-medicalisation started off well-meaning but is so incredibly predatory now. Rather than help people sort out their thoughts from reality and prepare them for life as a trans-person they have simply told them that anyone who disagrees with them wants them dead- which is isolating and abusive.
I’ve never been told that someone who disagrees with me wants me dead. I also roll my eyes when someone refers the ‘trans genocide’. I’d argue I’m pretty well adjusted for a trans person. I don’t think it’s possible to change sex and don’t relate to most of the trans community.

I think there is a history is people wanting to be the opposite sex throughout history, but it haven’t been possible to do anything medical about it until 90ish years ago

You made the assertion that sex is determined by hormones not chromosomes which is why a transwomen are woman, and not a man.
You’re going to have to show me where I said that because I don’t believe I did that. I said the development of secondary sex characteristics is driven by hormones and that is it.

What do you think makes a woman a woman?

I’ve never been told that someone who disagrees with me wants me dead. I also roll my eyes when someone refers the ‘trans genocide’. I’d argue I’m pretty well adjusted for a trans person. I don’t think it’s possible to change sex and don’t relate to most of the trans community.

Can I ask what mental health support have you had, and whether you think that it is within the range of normal for trans-people. I only ask because the transwomen I have met in the female toilets have been aggressive and intimidting and are the reason I cannot currently attend a gym.

What do you think makes a woman a woman?
A woman is an adult human female.

Can I ask what mental health support have you had, and whether you think that it is within the range of normal for trans-people. I only ask because the transwomen I have met in the female toilets have been aggressive and intimidting and are the reason I cannot currently attend a gym.
I’m sorry you can’t go to the gym. I have always avoided spaces where there is potential for communal changing. I also avoid the gym because of the changing room issue.

I’ve been in therapy for the majority of the last 5 years, restarting it just after I started my transition. My therapist has helped me work through a lot of my feels around my identity and has helped with a separate mental health issue as well. My mental health is significantly better now that I’ve transitioned and daily life isn’t a struggle anymore.

In what way have the trans women you’ve encountered been aggressive to you?

That is really interesting thank you for being so open.

Can I ask what led you to being a trans-woman? I know your experience will be different from others.

Can I also ask if the Supreme court ruling affected you in any way (positively or negatively?)

I have had three experiences that have caused me fear to be alone with transwomen. The first I was asked to assess a trans woman at work, but I had to be chaparoned by a male colleague because he had assaulted two female nurses. This person was a large male who was being discharged and I kept thinking if I come accross this person in the toilet I woudl be terrified for me an other women. I spoke about this on Reddit and my account was disabled because I called the person a man.

The second time I was in the toilet and a very drunk transwoman came in and pissed in the sink. He was banging on the doors and generally out of control and I just stayed in the stall until he left.

The last time I was in the gym changing room alone. It was 4.30pm. A TGW entered- this person was just a man. Had a mans voice was really tall and lean. They came in with a woman. The changing room was open but had places you could go behind banks of lockers. The TGW put their bag down directly behind me and then started to get unchanged. I was in front of the mirror and they kept looking at me. I was petrified and just froze. When I checked policy it didnt' have a TG policy and the changing room said female. I asked the gym and they told me that the person should only be using the changing rooms outside of peak hours- which they didn't do and is a poor control for that risk anyway. When I asked the gym to let all female members know there was a TGW that could be in the changing room they didn't do anything.

Humans have yearned for many impossible things.

To speak to dead loved ones.

To fly like a bird.

To speak with animals, or for the existence of human/animal hybrids.

To be the opposite sex.

To see the future.

To have the power to control nature, or to have relationships with supernatural entities that can do so for us.

I think these are very natural fantasies for humans to have, but I don't think they are any more meaningful or real than wish fulfilling fantasy.

And even if future science make one or more of them actually possible, it's not "fixing" a gap or correcting a lack , it's creating something entirely new.

That sounds really terrifying. I’m sorry you had those experiences. I can completely understand why you’d be hesitant about us when that has been for experience. I certainly know I’d feel the same if I experienced that.

Can I ask what led you to being a trans-woman? I know your experience will be different from others.
I don’t really know what led to me being this way, and it’s played on my mind a lot. I just know that as a child I felt like I should’ve been a girl because that’s who I am. That feeling never went away and it got to a point where it was either try transition of stay miserable and keep living inauthentically.

Can I also ask if the Supreme court ruling affected you in any way (positively or negatively?)
It has caused me quite a lot of stress worrying what the future looks like for me. But day-to-day nothing is really different for me.

It has caused me quite a lot of stress worrying what the future looks like for me. But day-to-day nothing is really different for me.

What type of things are you worried about?

I’m worried about being forced to share spaces with men. I understand I’m male, but I’d still feel uncomfortable and vulnerable in that situation.