Mail story: Teenage 'trans student who dressed as a dog stabs parents to death and knifes pet golden retriever'

[RoyalCorgi]

https://www.dailymail.com/news/article-15923249/Trans-furry-dog-stabs-parents-death-golden-retriever.html

Opening paragraphs:

"A teen who attended school as a 'furry' dressed as a dog has been accused of killing his parents and stabbing their dog - then sharing macabre images of the scene with fellow students.

"The schoolboy, 15, who is reportedly transitioning from girl to boy, was arrested last week in Groningen in the Netherlands and charged with double murder, according to Dutch outlet RTL."

Horrific story, but notable because this is a girl identifying as a boy who has apparently killed her own parents. She also identified as a dog, and, if the article is to be believed, she and her friends were allowed to attend school dressed as dogs.

NB The article is all over the place with pronouns.

The two most recent school shooters in the U.S were both trans identified.

I've just looked at the most recent 10 school shooters listed on Wikipedia (which was last updated on June 17th) and none of them were trans so no this isn't true. I think what you actually mean here is "the two most recent school shooters in the US that I heard about were trans; it has not occurred to me there might also have been multiple others who weren't trans and therefore I didn't hear about as they were not amplified through the same anti-trans channels where I heard about the other ones".

And in fact here's a Reuters article which soundly debunks your claim, noting there have been fewer than 10 trans or non-binary mass shooters in the US in the space of the last decade, making up about 0.11% of total shootings - given that the number of trans people in the US is about 0.5% this is actually less than you'd expect based on pure demographics, which suggests trans people are actually less likely to commit mass shootings than other groups.

https://www.reuters.com/article/fact-check/majority-of-us-mass-shooters-are-cis-men-not-transgender-or-non-binary-people-idUSL1N363273/

Nothing else you've claimed has any evidence or source to back it up. The few individual cases that you mention do not prove a trend or anything that can be generalised to a whole demographic. I think you need to do some honest thinking about both reporting bias and confirmation bias and whether these are affecting the way that you think about trans people.

This wasnt a mass killing. You may get different results if you ask it for a list of young women under 23 who have killed their parents for example. The other thing that will skewer results is that it is often the boyfriend of the daughter who kills her parents under varying amounts of her control.

In this thread, I had a look at a list of murders transpeople have been convicted for in the UK over recent years. I fact-checked all of them against media accounts. A large percentage of the murders were extremely violent. A good number had sexual elements. There was a lot of mention of mental health issues. 2 of the murders (and very nasty ones) were carried out by transmen. 3 I think were the murder of parents.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5525061-transgender-homicides-in-britain-2000-2025-victims-and-perpetrators?

There's also Alec McKinney (born Maya McKinney) posted about upthread.

Yes, though I see that this wouldn't qualify as a mass killing as there was fortunately only one death (and that boy was killed by McKinney's male accomplice).

Most media sources report crimes committed by trans identified men as being committed by women; using she/her pronouns.

i was not generalising to "a whole demographic", but given the supposedly 'tiny' community of trans identified people, there sure does seem to be a lot of sexual and/or violent crimes being committed - though, as one might suspect, by men, and not by women ( as in female people)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States_(2020s)

Wikipedia hasn't listed the number of mass school shootings this year because the year is not yet over....but so far there seem to have been 15.
Single gun incidents don't count as a mass shooting.

Can you link me to your evidence?

What did this poster say and why was it removed?

Correction: one of the recent reported mass shootings ( in Britain) that I referred to occured in Canada, at Tumbler Ridge School ( though it was not widely reported as having been committed by a trans identified male)

On my AI search for female shooters, it did not include the women IDing as trans, but did include a TIM (I now realise).

And the most disturbing thing is, of the number of mass shooting murders in the US so far this year (11) over half were family annihilations.

The only mass school killing by a woman I've been able to find was a transman. So that's 100%. Plus we know of another transman who took part in an attempted mass school killing, and a third one who planned one and would have executed it if she hadn't been caught first.

As it is in Holland might she have been following the ‘Dutch Protocol’ for adolescent gender treatment ( which Finland at first adopted then dropped)?
Puberty blockers then cross-sex hormones/testosterone.

Apparently the Netherlands have just passed a law against conversion therapy. I don't know the detail of it but no doubt it's online.

I agree. I read of those too.

But there do seem to be some worrying indications that some transmen (aka women) are committing very violent crimes. These are 2 very different groups, aren't they? It wouldn't be surprising to find that transwomen (aka men) on average commit more sexual crime than other men, whereas transmen don't commit much sexual crime, but become more angry and aggressive than other women because of testosterone, and so commit more violent crime. Plus both groups are probably more likely to suffer from mental health conditions, which may affect the crime rate and the types of crime they commit. There needs to be objective research.

Re; female school shootings- in 1979,there was Brenda Ann Spencer, whise actions and words inspired Bib Geldif to write "I Don't Like Mondays ". But I don't think she managed to kill any of the children she was aiming at.

She shot and killed the school principal and a janitor, who were trying to help the children she'd shot

Yes, but I do wonder if it fits the criteria for mass school shooting? (Obviously, it's dreadful either way, people were murdered.)

I agree.

According to chatgpt a mass shooting has to result in the death of either 3 or 4 victims (depending on the database), not including the death of the shooter. If you look for women who have killed one or more people at a school, more results will come up, though tiny compared with male crimes. There are so many shootings in the US that I think you're more likely to get an accurate number if you focus on the more extreme crimes.

Notable, I think, that the school was allowing children to come to school dressed as dogs - something the left has repeatedly assured us is a lie put about by right-wing outlets.

Dutch schools rarely have uniform or anything other than pretty basic dress codes banning unsafe or objectively offensive clothing, so this aspect was probably not as notable as it might have been in a British school.

The girl seems to have been hugely let down, though. And now two people are dead and the rest of the child's life will be a mess.

A 'cis' teen would not be pumped full of puberty blockers and then wrong sex hormones their bodies simply are not at all designed to handle. But keep thinking this is about a 'minority' rather than a mass medical scandal. Keep looking in the wrong direction because you don't want to face the facts.

What about people who killed their parents, and not a mass killing? After all, the furry teen in this post killed her parents, she didn't shoot up her school.

It's insane.

If we were affirming identity fully then this girl was a dog, and should not have been going to school and her parents should not have been recieving benefits and she should not have been eligible for healthcare. She should go to the vets when needed and this would be fully chargeable.

So everyone involved, can see she is human so what purpose does affirming as a dog serve? This might sound like a silly question and point but it's central to just how insane these ideas are and how glaring the lack of appropriate mental health support is.

The authorities were allowing her to present and identify as a dog. Why? As I say this actually has no end goal and certainly doesn't parallel with the idea that you are who you say you are with sex. This child simultaneously is told she can identify as a boy and if she does, she really is a boy. And then is being positively affirmed as a dog, but is expected to still go to school. Think about this contradiction. Everyone expects her to ultimately grow out of the dog phase and be a human. Otherwise the alternative is a stray dog living on the streets with no notion of wrong or right, just food and sex and animalistic urges.

Whenever you have medical treatment the focus should be as much on the end goal as managing current systems because of the possibilities of long term harm. We don't allow some people some treatments because they have serious side effects or can cause long term harm even if they may help with current symptoms.

This case, regardless of how it's ended in the awful murder of two people, really highlights the screwed up thinking and unethical treatment of a child. Everyone here knows she's not a dog and yet they've continued to fail to challenge the behaviour and address why it is happening and why she shouldn't be doing it. Instead they encouraged it and didn't think about the contradiction between saying yes you can become a man just because you say so and no you can't become a dog just because you say so.

It is massively relevant to point this out. Especially in the context of a mental health crisis in young people. Just today there's a report out on referrals to mental health services for children (front page of BBC news) with anxiety related issues, ADHD and autism significant groups.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwyd1l0lge8o

In the UK there is a known clear lack of support and intervention. I don't know about the Dutch system generally but this case strongly suggests this girl falls between the cracks because of her trans identity (the dog affirmation business lays it starkly out). And more generally in the UK we can't explain this rise in our society and why we have a generation struggling to cope. It speaks of a wider cultural issue. The Netherlands is one of our closest cultural matches despite the language difference. Culturally we are a closer match to the Netherlands than the USA.

This isn't a trans related story as such. It's one about mental health provision. This is the lens it should be viewed through because of so many questions about why this girl was being allowed to behave like this and was being encouraged to do so.

This in terms raises inconvenient truths and conversations about trans issues. Not the other way round (this distinction is important). If you were affirming this child and that was the 'right approach' then you should still be saying that behaviour isn't ok and needs mental health support. (This is where we need to have massive conversations about best practices in trans identifying teens and the whole premise of affirmation only as the only practice collapses - remembering this is the model of care so many campaigner are aiming for and see as the goal)

This kid didn't do this because she was trans. This kid did this because she a child showing significant signs of mental distress which were being positively affirmed as ok behaviours. Authorities were cheerleading red flags with red flags. It's a red flag parade.