Should a 6 year old be taught that it’s normal to be trans, in a PSHE lesson?

[cloverdance]

Hi everyone,

I’d appreciate views and any knowledge on this. My husband came downstairs this morning really perturbed and upset that our 6 year old daughter had said that she’d been taught a book in PSHE- something about ‘My Brother’s Now My Sister’ and told him that a TA leading the lesson had said that it is normal to be trans. She told him she now wants to be a boy.
I don’t actually think she is gender confused at all, more that this suggestion has been made and the idea has been put into her head.
I’ve done a bit of research and there is a 2024 government doc that suggests that this level of detail should be saved for secondary school. I’m not sure if this is still the case.
DH is adamant he wants to go down to school and challenge the teaching of this. The school are a Rainbow Flag school and are very much inclusive. To be clear, we like this about the school and we are not homophobic- happy for children to be taught that love looks different for different families etc. However, we are both not happy that this level of detail has been used, including the word ‘trans’ at age 6 and in year 1 and that transitioning is a normal thing to do.

DH is a secondary school teacher so has to be careful in airing this view. My view is that biological men shouldn’t be in female only spaces.

Does anyone have any advice what we should/can say to school. We don’t want her being taught this at such a young age.

How is a Head going to challenge statutory guidance? It suggests they're a trans activist rather than an educator. It also opens them to Ofsted scrutiny if parents complain that they're breaking the law.

I agree with everything you’ve said. But particularly in regards to the importance of teaching kindness, tolerance and respect.
This needs to be taught alongside biological truth - the two can go hand in hand, although many trans activists cannot accept that. Many of them believe (it seems) that they can change their sex and that those who dispute this are intolerant. By all means let adults have this debate but there is no need to foist it on young children in a biased way.

If trans people really accepted themselves, they would accept their birth sex, while not accepting the arbitrary social expectations associated with it.

I agree with this. It is tough, but someone who believes they need to change sex needs to know and accept that it is a biological impossibility and the best they can do is apply tweaks that improve their lives. Others should of course treat them with respect ... that goes without saying.

What is unacceptable is that they should expect others to share their false belief, even to the point of bringing these lies into the schooling of the young.

Hello OP!

As a trans person myself, I am horrified that children that young should be dragged into this matter in such a way.

All young children need to know is that there are people who believe that they are not the sex they actually are, that those people may change their name and ask that other people use opposite-sex pronouns for them, and that we remain free to acquiesce to their requests or not.

That's it. That's all. No need to go into gender ideology at all. Just "Some people believe X and here's how we can deal with it."

Absolutely not ok at all

Can you answer @Leafstamp's question:

What do you think being trans is?

It would help us to understand what you mean when you talk about people (particularly children) 'being trans'. Saying you don't think it's a belief system doesn't really help anyone to understand what you think it is. Tell us what you think it is, not what you think it isn't.

Exactly.

That's profoundly ignorant, I'm afraid. You're replying to someone who had no idea their child was trans, and chose in the moment of them coming out not to reject him. I then watched as he revealed his true self to me, and visibly became a different person while only socially transitioning. Witnessing that has changed everything I thought I knew about gender.

Being trans has nothing to do with beliefs. There is no handbook, and every trans person is very different. There is no uniformity to how they express themselves, dress, think, or move in the world. Trans kids are usually isolated with few or no trans friends. It is about following their own inner voice.

All of which puts them in grave danger. They live as trans despite enormous social pressure and intense, usually sexual violence I think you would struggle to fathom. It goes far beyond anything I've experienced as a deeply nonconformist woman. Yet it does not stop them being trans. Nothing does.

Accepting that trans people are born not made, and are profoundly healed by coming out, would probably be very difficult for you.

You'd have to look at what you've devoted your life to - I mean, that username does tell me an awful lot - and own your small part in enabling the extreme violence trans children suffer. What a waste. Unless you enjoy that, I guess.

It is a belief system, because your sex is a fact. Your belief that someone’s presumed “gender” can be different and distinct from their sex is a belief system, and a disputed one.

And even more so that single SEX spaces should therefore work on the basis of what you think of as “gender”.

@TransParentlyAnnoyed

All of which puts them in grave danger. They live as trans despite enormous social pressure and intense, usually sexual violence I think you would struggle to fathom. It goes far beyond anything I've experienced as a deeply nonconformist woman.

So... They don't live a normal life at all?

I post about trans issues a bit because transphobic violence has impacted my family, that's all.

Most of the time I chat elsewhere about politics, sport and my interests.

I cannot imagine being so ignorant, so obsessed with hating on a minority, that posting negatively about them was my whole online identity.

Minority people are not a monolith, hive mind, ideology or conspiracy. They are isolated individuals who all experience being trans in different ways.

Recycling old homophobic tropes is not analysis, and creating deeply odd origin stories for trans people suggests a very unhealthy obsession.

yes it is

There’s nothing odd about pointing out that not everyone believes in your ideology. It’s not a fact just because you personally believe in it.

That’s why there are government guidelines that disputed ideological beliefs should not be taught as fact.

Of course it's a belief system. It's a religion. We are the atheists & TPA is the fundamentalist. They are so invested in the cult that they are blinkered to the terrible damage this whole movement is causing to individuals & society.

obsessed with hating on a minority

I do not think anyone here is doing that. They are recognising the dilemma in which some people find themselves and are advocating kindness and respect, whilst at the same time pointing out that changing sex is impossible and ooung children should not be told it is.

All of which puts them in grave danger. They live as trans despite enormous social pressure and intense, usually sexual violence I think you would struggle to fathom. It goes far beyond anything I've experienced as a deeply nonconformist woman. Yet it does not stop them being trans. Nothing does.

You are making sweeping generalisations about trans people again, like you are doing on the mental health thread. That is not helpful - trans people are not a monolith. I have that on good authority. Someone said that on this very thread at 12.15

Why would ‘living as trans’ expose a female person to ‘intense sexual violence’ and why would you advocate for more kids to go through this? Surely you’d want to help others avoid it?

Trans kids are usually isolated with few or no trans friends. It is about following their own inner voice.

Some kids may be socially isolated but I will bet money on the fact they spend a lot of time gaming and on the internet being led to the conclusion that they are trans by the generalised specifics suggestibility methods discussed on the m/h threads. Many kids who think they are trans are not isolated, they will have activist teachers or trans friends who like the TA in this thread seem to be on a mission to indoctrinate.

Accepting that trans people are born not made, and are profoundly healed by coming out, would probably be very difficult for you.

Another huge and inaccurate generalisation. The evidence says otherwise. As Seethlaw, a trans Mumsnet user says, it would be better to aim for a healthy body and a settled mind by dealing with the mental health drivers for gender dysphoria rather than jumping straight up a diagnosis of ‘trans’ and the accompanying medical and social interventions.

I don't see how it can be denied that there can be an element of social contagion. When my daughter was at school a few years ago there were a significant number of kids (mainly in the same friendship groups) who identified as trans or non-binary. Most have not persisted.

Even my daughter, who is definitely not trans, flirted with the idea for five minutes or so when she was about 13. My attitude with that as with other things she adopted was basically "whatever you are is fine by me, but you are still very young, let's see how you feel in a few months before making any big announcements".

I'm not saying some people don't genuinely experience dysphoria, etc. But teens are well known for trying on different identities. That's fine, as long as they aren't then taken down a route which is hard to change.

Actual transitioning - though essentially a new name and haircut for the vast majority - is a serious step involving a lot of school planning, and preparation for the violence involved. No one does it if they aren't serious.

So being trans is as meaningless as a name and haircut change (routine for actors, or teenagers forming bands) but is at the same time deeply dangerous? What kind of message is this giving children?

OP you are right to pursue this.

Being trans has nothing to do with beliefs. There is no handbook, and every trans person is very different. There is no uniformity to how they express themselves, dress, think, or move in the world. Trans kids are usually isolated with few or no trans friends. It is about following their own inner voice.

So if they're all different, how can we know they're experiencing the same thing? What is their inner voice telling them? Once again, that question which you have declined to answer: What do you think being trans is?

All of which puts them in grave danger. They live as trans despite enormous social pressure and intense, usually sexual violence I think you would struggle to fathom. It goes far beyond anything I've experienced as a deeply nonconformist woman. Yet it does not stop them being trans. Nothing does.

So if the social pressure is all against them being trans, how does that fit in with what the TA teaching the OP's child is doing by is encouraging them to think about being trans?

What sexual violence does being trans open them up to (apart from the issue that we already know of, which is older TIMs preying on young women and girls who identify as trans)?

dealing with the mental health drivers for gender dysphoria

Especially when there are so many red flags all over the current cohort of "trans kids" - but also over many of the older ones! Like, in my case, there are at least three very obvious avenues to explore... and literally zero specialist to discuss them with.

I don't really feel inclined to respond to someone using transphobic slurs, but oh my god. Virtually all trans people have suffered some form of sexual assault because of cis male anger.

I've said so many times that my son was told "it doesn't count of we touch you" at scholl. The sexual harassment and violence he's endured nearly broke him. All because trans people are seen as fair game for violence. I.know you read my posts, but acknowledging this violence seems anathema to you.

Being trans is different for every person. But all of them describe the peace that comes from self-acceptance. if you don't want to hear that reply, that's entirely your problem.

A book teaching acceptance, tolerance and respect is not 'social pressure'. That's just, once again, recycling homophobia. No one is made trans by reading that trans people exist.

Virtually all trans people have suffered some form of sexual assault because of cis male anger.

Before or after transitioning?

All because trans people are seen as fair game for violence.

Er, no? I've had loads of conversations with loads of trans people, and that bit literally never came up, except for the transwomen who did sex work.

No one is made trans by reading that trans people exist.

The sky-high number of kids who identify as trans in fandom points to the contrary.