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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Jennifer Melle wins settlement from NHS

305 replies

RoyalCorgi · 13/04/2026 12:49

Haven't seen a thread about this anywhere else, but Jennifer Melle, the nurse who refused to refer to a convicted sex offender by his preferred pronouns, and was disciplined, has won a settlement from the NHS trust she works for.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2vlxdnnpqo

Nurse Jennifer Melle takes part in a show of solidarity with MPs and nurses on College Green outside the Houses of Parliament in Westminster, central London, place ahead of the NHS disciplinary hearing of Christian nurse Jennifer Melle on Tuesday.

Nurse in trans dispute win settlement from NHS employer

Melle was racially abused by a transgender woman at a hospital after she addressed them as "Mr".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2vlxdnnpqo

OP posts:
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9
Datun · 14/04/2026 00:04

OldCrone · 14/04/2026 00:01

So does this board believe that most trans people are not radical but just quietly living their life, and doesn't concern itself with those people?

This may be true.

Or does this board hold that gender ideology is enforced through threats, comply or else?

This is quite clearly true.

And 'the board' doesn't believe anything. It's individual people. And they all have different lines in the sand.

Or does this board hold that gender ideology is enforced through threats, comply or else?
This is quite clearly true.

It is.

murasaki · 14/04/2026 00:05

I'm faintly amused that AlwaysNuance believes it's a binary board opinion, and not nuanced....

AlwaysNuance · 14/04/2026 00:06

murasaki · 13/04/2026 23:50

Both. Many people are not arseholes.

However the arseholes try to enforce the ideology through death threats, job losses, comply or else.

It's quite simple.

I would have said the core belief of gender ideology is the belief that one's sense of one's gender trumps sex.

Because many people genuinely believe that, they believe that their gender is "true" whilst their body is just a quirk of fate. So they believe they "are" a man despite being born female, or "are" a woman despite being born male.

All the expectations flow from this initial conceptualisation. In a MTF trans person's mind you aren't being accurate if you call them a man because in their belief system their gender, which they perceived to be female, is the more important factor in what makes womanhood. Add in that a large number are autistic with accompanying cognitive flexibility issues, and online messaging, and it's not surprising that the debate becomes polarised.

I don't personally believe people can change sex. I don't have an experience of gender outside my sexed body, but I cannot claim that I know what other people's experiences are in this regard. I don't believe trans people should have automatic access to the rights and spaces of the gender they identify into. I do believe that everyone is entitled to dignity and personally I will use chosen names and pronouns whilst arguing for trans spaces and separation of sex and gender in documentation. In my ideal world being trans would be an acknowledged non-shameful state where no one feels they have to deny they were previously a guy, hide childhood photos, etc but where being trans is it's own protected status with titles and pronouns used as desired, but not access to opposite sex spaces, prizes, scholarships etc.

murasaki · 14/04/2026 00:08

Your last sentence would be good. But it's not good enough for a lot of TRAs, is it.

Edited to add not the pronouns. Compelled language isn't for me. They can use them about themselves, but I won't. I'll just avoid pronouns and use names, and yes, chosen names are fine.

AlwaysNuance · 14/04/2026 00:10

murasaki · 14/04/2026 00:08

Your last sentence would be good. But it's not good enough for a lot of TRAs, is it.

Edited to add not the pronouns. Compelled language isn't for me. They can use them about themselves, but I won't. I'll just avoid pronouns and use names, and yes, chosen names are fine.

Edited

Not yet.

But as we keep saying, the majority of trans people are not TRAs.

SlackJawedDisbeliefXY · 14/04/2026 00:10

Looking at the patient’s medical records, she saw that the patient was recorded as male, not female or ‘transgender’. On the name board next to the bed, it simply gave the feminine name.
The nurse checked the charts, the patient was listed as male

With her colleague finally getting through to the doctor on the phone, Jennifer requested to speak to him. She said to the doctor that: ‘Mr X would like to self-discharge.’
The patient wants to leave against the advice of medical staff

Overhearing the call, enraged Mr X screamed: “Do not call me Mr! I am a woman!”
The conversation that Mr X overhears was going on outside the room - one assumes intentionally away from the patient because they were already agitated.

The nurse is trying to be respectful towards the patient using a formal Mr X or perhaps she is just exasperated at the fuss he is causing?

Still on the phone to the doctor, Jennifer called back to Mr X that she was speaking to the doctor and was working out what medication could be given before he was discharged.
The nurse is acceding to Mr X's demands and trying to get him discharged safely

Finishing the call, she approached the patient’s room.
The call had happed outside the patient's room, not in front of the patient

Stepping inside, Jennifer found Mr X pacing up and down in chains.
So presumably Mr X is not chained to the prison guards at this point

Jennifer politely said: ‘I am sorry I cannot refer to you as her or she, as it’s against my faith and Christian values but I can call you by your name.’
He has been shouting at her, she is trying to find a solution acceptable to them both
So she tries to de-escalate by telling Mr X that her faith means that she will not use female pronouns for him but is prepared to use his preferred (presumably typically female) name.

She then began to relay what the doctor had said, but then the abuse and vitriol escalated.
So, using his female name (as the nurse has indicated she will), the nurse starts to do her job and explain what the doctor has said over the phone

‘Imagine if I called you n’, Mr X yelled. ‘How about I call you n? Yes, black n*!’
Clearly Mr X is a really nice chap

Jennifer said if he carried on, she would have to call security.
Note here - security. I assume that the prison guards are not helping much here if hospital security needs to be called

Mr X then lunged threateningly towards Jennifer and pursued her out of the room until he was eventually held back by the guards.
He is moving towards her threateningly and physically pushing her out of the room and finally the prison guards act
She has tried to de-escalate by using his preferred name but this is not enough for Mr X

He then shouted: ‘I want your name and NHS number and am going to report you to the police for homophobia and to Patient Advice and Liaison Service’ (PALS).
He already knows the channels to report her though and the information required for the report - this is not his first rodeo

One of the guards approached Jennifer and said: ‘Why can’t you just call him what he wants?’
The prison guard is not telling her to 'back down' but whining at her to carefully place her faith in the bin and make the the violent guy happy
She is already using his preferred female name but this is apparently not enough, he needs complete subservience - he needs her to use she / her as well.
Mr X had just repeatedly called her a n, pushed her out of the room and threatened to report her to PALS

Jennifer reiterated what she had already said about her Christian beliefs, and the guard said no more.
Bloody right, the prison guard needs to get on and do his job so she can do hers

Returning, Jennifer said, using Mr X’s feminine name: ‘I got you your pain relief.’
Mr X has been massively abusive but the nurse is still treating him and using his feminine name?

She deserves a medal

murasaki · 14/04/2026 00:13

AlwaysNuance · 14/04/2026 00:10

Not yet.

But as we keep saying, the majority of trans people are not TRAs.

Majority or not, there are enough and they are dangerous enough for your ideal world to be just that, ideal. Until we comply they won't stop the death threats etc. And that's not happening, so we have an impass.

It's not always kind to concede reality to the mentally unwell.

MyAmpleSheep · 14/04/2026 00:15

AlwaysNuance · 14/04/2026 00:10

Not yet.

But as we keep saying, the majority of trans people are not TRAs.

I still don't know why that's relevant to this thread.

Heggettypeg · 14/04/2026 00:32

SlackJawedDisbeliefXY · 14/04/2026 00:10

Looking at the patient’s medical records, she saw that the patient was recorded as male, not female or ‘transgender’. On the name board next to the bed, it simply gave the feminine name.
The nurse checked the charts, the patient was listed as male

With her colleague finally getting through to the doctor on the phone, Jennifer requested to speak to him. She said to the doctor that: ‘Mr X would like to self-discharge.’
The patient wants to leave against the advice of medical staff

Overhearing the call, enraged Mr X screamed: “Do not call me Mr! I am a woman!”
The conversation that Mr X overhears was going on outside the room - one assumes intentionally away from the patient because they were already agitated.

The nurse is trying to be respectful towards the patient using a formal Mr X or perhaps she is just exasperated at the fuss he is causing?

Still on the phone to the doctor, Jennifer called back to Mr X that she was speaking to the doctor and was working out what medication could be given before he was discharged.
The nurse is acceding to Mr X's demands and trying to get him discharged safely

Finishing the call, she approached the patient’s room.
The call had happed outside the patient's room, not in front of the patient

Stepping inside, Jennifer found Mr X pacing up and down in chains.
So presumably Mr X is not chained to the prison guards at this point

Jennifer politely said: ‘I am sorry I cannot refer to you as her or she, as it’s against my faith and Christian values but I can call you by your name.’
He has been shouting at her, she is trying to find a solution acceptable to them both
So she tries to de-escalate by telling Mr X that her faith means that she will not use female pronouns for him but is prepared to use his preferred (presumably typically female) name.

She then began to relay what the doctor had said, but then the abuse and vitriol escalated.
So, using his female name (as the nurse has indicated she will), the nurse starts to do her job and explain what the doctor has said over the phone

‘Imagine if I called you n’, Mr X yelled. ‘How about I call you n? Yes, black n*!’
Clearly Mr X is a really nice chap

Jennifer said if he carried on, she would have to call security.
Note here - security. I assume that the prison guards are not helping much here if hospital security needs to be called

Mr X then lunged threateningly towards Jennifer and pursued her out of the room until he was eventually held back by the guards.
He is moving towards her threateningly and physically pushing her out of the room and finally the prison guards act
She has tried to de-escalate by using his preferred name but this is not enough for Mr X

He then shouted: ‘I want your name and NHS number and am going to report you to the police for homophobia and to Patient Advice and Liaison Service’ (PALS).
He already knows the channels to report her though and the information required for the report - this is not his first rodeo

One of the guards approached Jennifer and said: ‘Why can’t you just call him what he wants?’
The prison guard is not telling her to 'back down' but whining at her to carefully place her faith in the bin and make the the violent guy happy
She is already using his preferred female name but this is apparently not enough, he needs complete subservience - he needs her to use she / her as well.
Mr X had just repeatedly called her a n, pushed her out of the room and threatened to report her to PALS

Jennifer reiterated what she had already said about her Christian beliefs, and the guard said no more.
Bloody right, the prison guard needs to get on and do his job so she can do hers

Returning, Jennifer said, using Mr X’s feminine name: ‘I got you your pain relief.’
Mr X has been massively abusive but the nurse is still treating him and using his feminine name?

She deserves a medal

If this is an accurate record, what jumped out at me here is that the prison guards said "why can't you call him what he wants. So they're not really buying "she" either, but they're trying to make Jennifer go through the motions. It's an absolute farce.

HarrietofFire · 14/04/2026 00:34

@AlwaysNuance I work with sex offenders in my job. Some are paedophiles, some have offended against adults. An increasing number of the people I work with are identifying as female. Even in male prisons, this means they get special attention. Preferences about whom they share cells with, different clothing and (until recently) the chance of transferring to a women’s prison if they tried hard enough.

Believe me, most male sex offenders who say they are women have ulterior motives and should be treated with the utmost caution. As professionals working in health, social care or justice settings we should not have to worry that using the word ‘mister’ might wind them up. Most of them are men, looking like men and behaving like men but saying they are women.

solerolover · 14/04/2026 00:37

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solerolover · 14/04/2026 00:41

@SlackJawedDisbeliefXY Mr X then lunged threateningly towards Jennifer and pursued her out of the room until he was eventually held back by the guards.
He is moving towards her threateningly and physically pushing her out of the room and finally the prison guards act

I remember reading an interview with Jennifer a few months ago, and she said that the prisoner was actually extremely close to headbutting her. She handled the whole situation with so much grace.

AlwaysNuance · 14/04/2026 00:45

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Reported. I am not having that.

I think the nurse in this situation needlessly escalated an already difficult situation. Her being Black is irrelevant to that opinion. I would think the same if it was a white nurse or a male nurse.

I am not excusing the person's behaviour towards her.

MyAmpleSheep · 14/04/2026 01:13

AlwaysNuance · 14/04/2026 00:45

Reported. I am not having that.

I think the nurse in this situation needlessly escalated an already difficult situation. Her being Black is irrelevant to that opinion. I would think the same if it was a white nurse or a male nurse.

I am not excusing the person's behaviour towards her.

Edited

So the racism upsets you, but you'll cop to the victim-blaming and misogyny?

AlwaysNuance · 14/04/2026 01:31

A person lies dying. Their partner, weeping, sits beside them. After they breathe their last, the partner turns to the nurse and says, "Where are you taking John? Will you look after him?" The nurse replies "Of course we will look after her. She will be in the chapel of rest, you can visit whenever you like". The bereaved says "John transitioned 20 years ago. We were married 10 years. Can you not refer to him as male?" The nurse gently explains that her Christian faith doesn't allow her to use incorrect titles or pronouns, but she will use the chosen name John. The bereaved person is very distressed by this. Justified in the circumstances?

A young adult trans person using the name Sophie is in A and E waiting for the psych on call and to be patched up for a deep self-harm gouge to the wrist. The nurse stitching tells Sophie's parent "He's lucky he didn't do more damage, we will get him sorted". Sophie sobs louder and the parent asks the nurse to use female pronouns as Sophie is trans. The nurse says that she cannot do so as her faith does not allow, but she will use the name Sophie. Justified in the circumstances?

MyAmpleSheep · 14/04/2026 01:46

Today's "dodge the question" award goes to.

MyAmpleSheep · 14/04/2026 01:58

And, anyway, yes, and yes, entirely justified. "Christian faith" is a total red herring. It's justified for Jews, Christians, people of no faith. Both your hypothetical subjects are male, and the truth is not in any circumstances a libel.

If anyone has emotional difficulties with that they simply need to reframe their trauma.

ElenOfTheWays · 14/04/2026 02:08

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MaraladeorJam · 14/04/2026 02:36

AlwaysNuance · 13/04/2026 16:34

None of which are relevant here as this person didn't use any of those threats. They did use horrific racist language which I haven't excused at all.

As a professional person I wouldn't choose to call any person who has communicated their desire to be referred to as female as "Mr". It is inflammatory. Particularly when by all accounts that person is already agitated and unstable.

If it was an error that's different, but it obviously wasn't as the nurse told this already riled up, dangerous person that her Christian beliefs prevented her from using preferred pronouns and titles.

I maintain that this was not the time not the person with whom to make a stand. You take an already agitated and upset person and wind them up further. It doesn't matter that the person is a horrible person. You can escalate or de-escalate. This nurse escalated an already precarious situation with a volatile and upset person.

She did not deserve to be racially abused, but getting some kind of heightened response from this person in the situation was pretty predictable.

As a professional person I wouldn't choose to call any person who has communicated their desire to be referred to as female as "Mr". It is inflammatory.

It is not inflammatory. They rage because they are entitled arseholes - that is different.

wasn't as the nurse told this already riled up, dangerous person that her Christian beliefs prevented her from using preferred pronouns and titles.

He is trying to make her conform, she declined and explained why.

He got nasty, dirty and abusive.

And that is why the NHS paid up.

MaraladeorJam · 14/04/2026 02:53

AlwaysNuance · 13/04/2026 22:01

She didn't have to lie.

She could have simply said something along the lines of "Sorry to have upset you, your notes said Male, they obviously haven't been changed". This would have said nothing about her beliefs or her inability to use the pronouns wanted.

There's nothing inherently wrong with using a sex based pronoun. On the other hand, it's to be expected that if you do, it will be likely to rile up someone who has differing beliefs about their personhood and who is already known to be an unpleasant and violent human.

So he can say what he wants , including that he is a she, but the nurse cannot she her bit?

Is that your position Nuance (weird name given the chat)?

ElenOfTheWays · 14/04/2026 03:40

AlwaysNuance · 13/04/2026 20:32

Lol, I am almost 60 and have been on FWR since 2017. Got myself radicalised for a bit there too. Til I realised from my contacts with trans people in the real world that most trans people (unlike the person this thread is about) are just ordinary people.

Ahem

Jennifer Melle wins settlement from NHS
Datun · 14/04/2026 05:57

AlwaysNuance · 14/04/2026 01:31

A person lies dying. Their partner, weeping, sits beside them. After they breathe their last, the partner turns to the nurse and says, "Where are you taking John? Will you look after him?" The nurse replies "Of course we will look after her. She will be in the chapel of rest, you can visit whenever you like". The bereaved says "John transitioned 20 years ago. We were married 10 years. Can you not refer to him as male?" The nurse gently explains that her Christian faith doesn't allow her to use incorrect titles or pronouns, but she will use the chosen name John. The bereaved person is very distressed by this. Justified in the circumstances?

A young adult trans person using the name Sophie is in A and E waiting for the psych on call and to be patched up for a deep self-harm gouge to the wrist. The nurse stitching tells Sophie's parent "He's lucky he didn't do more damage, we will get him sorted". Sophie sobs louder and the parent asks the nurse to use female pronouns as Sophie is trans. The nurse says that she cannot do so as her faith does not allow, but she will use the name Sophie. Justified in the circumstances?

The issue here is you've totally bought the ideology. You think it's real. You think everyone should comply in case the consequences are bad for them.

Substitute your trans people for men who think they're the king. That the person is being asked where they're taking his majesty, and being gently requested look after his royal highness. Then getting violent and hurling racist abuse when he's not referred to as such because, after all, he was crowned over 20 years ago.

NecessaryScene · 14/04/2026 06:29

Reading through this thread, I think what I'm picking up is that "always nuance" is being used to mean "a woman can never say an absolute no".

This is unsurprising - "someone must always submit" sucks as a Golden Rule for whoever ends always ends up being the "someone".

Wearenotborg · 14/04/2026 06:41

AlwaysNuance · 14/04/2026 00:06

I would have said the core belief of gender ideology is the belief that one's sense of one's gender trumps sex.

Because many people genuinely believe that, they believe that their gender is "true" whilst their body is just a quirk of fate. So they believe they "are" a man despite being born female, or "are" a woman despite being born male.

All the expectations flow from this initial conceptualisation. In a MTF trans person's mind you aren't being accurate if you call them a man because in their belief system their gender, which they perceived to be female, is the more important factor in what makes womanhood. Add in that a large number are autistic with accompanying cognitive flexibility issues, and online messaging, and it's not surprising that the debate becomes polarised.

I don't personally believe people can change sex. I don't have an experience of gender outside my sexed body, but I cannot claim that I know what other people's experiences are in this regard. I don't believe trans people should have automatic access to the rights and spaces of the gender they identify into. I do believe that everyone is entitled to dignity and personally I will use chosen names and pronouns whilst arguing for trans spaces and separation of sex and gender in documentation. In my ideal world being trans would be an acknowledged non-shameful state where no one feels they have to deny they were previously a guy, hide childhood photos, etc but where being trans is it's own protected status with titles and pronouns used as desired, but not access to opposite sex spaces, prizes, scholarships etc.

You do realise according to many trans allies what you have just said, as amazingly reasonable as it is, is considered transphobia of the highest order. It’s what women have been suggesting all along, but it’s not good enough for those trabs people who seek the “validation” of opposite sex spaces.

alliumursinum · 14/04/2026 07:04

Almost all of @AlwaysNuance posts are conspicuous with particular linguistic work arounds “this person” ‘ male bodied’ ‘this trans person’ etc. But even @AlwaysNuance cant keep it up, there’s an early him but in their post of 21:48, the ‘he/hims’ are flowing like wine.
Nuance may well say that as the male bodied individual isn’t on the thread, the male bodied individual isn’t being misgendered directly and Nuance was aware of this linguistic change.
However, I was struck by the deliberate, intentional language in all of Nuances contributions until we reached the ‘he/him-ahoy’ post. Almost as if it’s hard to maintain a fiction and eventually not even that ‘eventually’ as Jane R regularly demonstrates one slips up.

ETA to add he to him

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