To have kicked an old man’s dog?

[itsme189]

This morning I was walking my 2 very small elderly dogs on lead in the woods near me where it’s nice and cool for them.

they love people but they don’t love when dogs run up to them and get all in their face, valid I wouldn’t like that either. If a dog on or off lead just walks past or gives them a quick sniff they don’t mind. I always tell people not to let their dogs come right up to them.
Theyve never bitten just growled and I just don’t want to risk anything.

there was an old man walking a large greyhound type dog off lead and he’s miles away from it it runs at us very fast so I stick my leg in front of my dogs and the dog doesn’t stop runs straight into my leg. He then excitedly throws his foot on top of my smallest dog he squeals in pain and my other dog starts growling and showing teeth.

so I picked them up and then the big dogs starts jumping up at me to get to my dogs so I kick it away.

Old man then starts screaming at me for “abusing” his friendly dog and a lady walking passed then said to him “I saw her kick the dog”

and now I don’t know if I did too much but I was so overwhelmed and worried it would become a fight and there’s no way my old boys would do well in that situation. To make it worse the lady made a post about it in our local Facebook group (luckily no pictures) and everyone’s saying awful things but they only know one side!

For the record the dog was not hurt didn’t even squeal!

Not that it really matters but I have multiple scratches from the dogs claws on my shoulders/back and the start of a bruise on one shoulder. But I’m fine just got a bit scuffed up. A little unfortunate I was wearing a summer dress if I had a jumper on I doubt I’d have any marks.

It absolutely does matter, don't minimise the harm to you.

I would be tempted to take a picture and upload it in response to that Facebook post.

That's terrible, and glad the police sided with you.

Did she try and claim your dog was out of control or not on a leash?

Indeed, and fortunately neither of those things happened here, but there are still ways to minimise harm and it’s useful to know them rather than rely on everything always being as it should be.

Crikey, quite the drip feed and now information which significantly changes the picture. Why didn’t you say all this before?

That sounds much worse and it’s understandable why you reacted as you did. I stand by the need to stay as strong as you can. It doesn’t matter that your dogs are small, as you’ve found today. Of course if you have medical issues that might not be possible. If the Facebook post is bothering you post what you’ve said here because it’s massively different than it seemed at first.

I hope you’re all ok.

You were not in the wrong. There’s some very ignorant comments on here. You had your dogs under control which is the law. This is all on the other owner who did not have his dog under control. You have every right to walk your dogs wherever you want as you arr abiding by the law. There’s thousands of dogs who are injured, elderly, reactive rescue dogs of previous bad owners who need rehabilitation and they can’t all book secure fields ffs! I am enraged on your behalf. I can’t wait until those on here who commented that way have elderly dogs as everything changes then and they have every right to a quiet and calm walk. The idea that an older dog in pain should put up with a bouncy dog 4 times its size in their size is plain stupid. I carry a spray with me for exactly the kind of idiot owners. Two weeks before my last dog died, I had exactly the same situation and it ruined one of the last precious walks I had with my boy. People need to read up on the law, so much entitlement!

Some people really need to brush up on the dangerous dogs act...

"a dog may be dangerously out of control even if there are no grounds for reasonable apprehension that it will injure."

https://www.cps.gov.uk/prosecution-guidance/dangerous-dog-offences#_a03

The owner of the out of control dog is in the wrong. OPs dogs were on leads, or in her arms, so they were under control.

OP had scratches and bruising, her dog had minor injuries too. At this point it doesn't really matter if the dog's intentions were friendly or not. It was entirely reasonable of OP (assuming all happened as described) to try and end the interaction in whatever way she could manage at the time.

My husband wears a body cam when walking out reactive dog to protect him from bs, same type police wear.
Police are not interested in dog v dog, just when humans get bitten, and have read stories on dog sites where people lie and claim dogs bit them ot were off lead!

If an off lead dog bounds up to ours, its days going to be very crap. 100% not his fault and always have evidence to prove. Its on the uncontrolled dog owner.
People need to control their dogs in public.

People should keep their dogs on leads unless they can control them. And control them means getting them to return to the owner on demand. You might love your dog but many other people do not and you should not let your dog run up and bother people who are just out and about getting on with their day.

As a dog owner - the general etiquette is don't let your dog approach another dog if said dog is on lead. I thought that was pretty generally known and would put you fully in the clear here!

YANBU. Obviously it's not ideal to kick a dog, but it sounds like a situation where you didn't have time to think it through and it could have escalated.

I have a dog and honestly, if mine was behaving like that and someone kicked out at her, I'd be apologetic over the fact that they needed to because I couldn't control my own dog.

If it helps - there's a can of compressed air called "Pet Corrector" you can buy online. I actually used it to train my dog (because she thought everyone she came across wanted to wear her 🙄) and it just makes a loud hissing noise when you press it.
Now I carry one around in case something like what happened to you happens to us - most dogs run back to their owners immediately. And mine looks at me, wondering what she's done wrong 😂

I love dogs I have had them my whole life but if an off the lead dog came up to my two like that I would probably kick it away. You don’t know how it’s going to escalate and I wouldn’t risk mine getting hurt.
I don’t want my dogs to be kicked so I keep them on a lead and don’t let them run around out of control, other people should do the same.

This.

cannot stand dog owners who have no control of their dogs and then defend their stance.

I assume you mean you kicked your leg to stop the dog jumping on you, not that you gave it a big old kick to hurt it. I’m on your side. The only reason I won’t entertain getting a dog is because of other dog owners. Keep your freaking dogs on lead (it’s illegal not to here). I don’t want to be slobbered or jumped on and I LOVE animals. I love giving pats to well behaved dogs when the chance arises.

I agree with this.

The man was at fault, clearly. But there was no need to kick the dog.

Also, if you put your leg out to block the dog, how on earth did your dog end up “squealing in pain” because the other dog put its foot on top of your dog’s head? The description sounds overegged to justify booting a dog that had annoyed you.

Two things can simultaneously be true: the old man shouldn’t have his dog off the lead without proper control, and you shouldn’t have kicked a dog who was just being a bit exuberant.

No dog should be off lead. End of. There are plenty of dog parks these days where dogs can go off lead. But in public spaces, no. Too many lazy or just downright stupid owners who can’t pre-empt situations or control their dogs. Not wrong OP. I’d do exactly the same.

If your dog has no recall it has no business being off a lead hers were ON LEADS if a dog charged me and my dogs id kick it too its a natural reaction .

The dog shouldn't have run up to you, but picking up your dogs makes it worse!! Lots of dogs jump up when the thing they are interested in is suddenly in the air. It makes a tricky situation worse.

Why did you jump straight to being aggressive to the dog? Why didn't you give the dog a command to stop, to sit or any other thing that would stop it.

I am a dog owner, and although my dog is perfectly behaved other dogs aren't always. My dog has been trained to deescalate situations himself, but if he struggles/knows that his usual approach won't work, he looks for guidance to me for further instructions. I read the situation and the body language and intention of the dogs and respond accordingly. This was a playful dog, that was over zealous, I would have given a firm verbal command. In this situation I would have given verbal commands to the greyhound to stop/sit/leave it and given non verbal commands to my own dog at the same time so he would know how to extract himself from the situation.

Always teach your dog non verbals/hand signals. Handy for if they go deaf in old age and for when you need to deal with situations where you need to give multiple dogs different instructions at the same time

Irrelevant. OP's dogs are not going to get into this sort of situation where they may be kicked to keep them away from other dogs, because OP keeps her dogs on leads.

Why did you jump straight to being aggressive to the dog? Why didn't you give the dog a command to stop, to sit or any other thing that would stop it.

Read the OP's posts. She tried that, and also tried getting the owner to call the dog back. Neither worked. So was she supposed to leave her dogs within the reach of this one?

How is walking away going to help? Surely the greyhound would just regard that as part of the game?

Absolutely this. I adore greyhounds abd was thinking of getting a rescue one a few years back. All the charities I researched said muzzle and lead in public as part of their general rehoming policy (muzzle to begin with until dog feels settled) . This was non-negotiable as they have such a high prey drive. if I had adopted one it would have always been on-lead unless I'd hired a private field. I choose to foster cats instead lol. I also dislike dogs running up to me when I'm out walking & if a big one jumped up at me I would definitely say something to the owner. No dog should be jumping all over another dog or a person when out in public.

You pick up your dogs, as you did and you turn away from the other dog, you can put a leg out, but you absolutely cannot kick the dog. That is animal cruelty and the dog was jumping, not growling or attempting to savage.

Your reaction is massively over the top.

Totally agree. I see so many out of control dogs, often in places where dogs are not even supposed to be offlead. It makes me so angry.

I have a rescue who can be nervous of other dogs. He has not shown any aggression but he makes it clear he is not happy. He really hates dogs running up to him. He is always on lead as he has no recall and has a very very high prey drive so he can't get away when another dogs gallops up to him. I am sick of asking owners not to let their dogs do that and then, more often that I would like, getting a sarcastic or even nasty comment.

A few years ago I had a dog who loved all people and dogs. Then on a walk when he was on lead a dog ran up to him and just started biting his side and back. Thankfully he was not hurt as he was very hairy and the other dog's teeth obviously did not make contact with his skin but after that he was very wary of other dogs and would growl and snap if another dog ran towards him. It totally changed the way he was with other dogs and I always had to be on high alert for other dogs. All thanks to a useless idiot dog owner

Walking away should have been the first thing she did to be honest.

How is walking away going to help? Surely the greyhound would just regard that as part of the game?

It has the opposite effect, it's basic dog psychology, if you don't remove yourself, an excited dog that has approached you will focus all it's energy on you/your dog, it was pawing at her dog and hit it on the head, hurting it, because she was standing there allowing it access, if she had given a firm NO, then turned and walked her dogs away it would not have been able to do that, it is also giving a clear signal to the dog that you are not interested in playing with it.. dogs aren't mindless beasts, they understand commands and dog and human body language, it may have followed, and may have tried to interact, but in the process of walking you can block it from getting near your dogs, if it is not getting any excitement in return most the time it will just give up and move on to the next poor person minding their own business, I've had to walk TOWARDS an owner before to help them get it back, but the movement and blocking stopped it getting access to my dogs.

Standing there shouting, kicking out, dancing around with your dogs in your arms, turning round in circles (I've seen people do this so many times to know exactly how OP reacted) it is just a massive game to an excited dog.. it means absolutely nothing to their dog brain apart from fun, and will cause them to jump, pounce, act nuts basically unless there is an owner nearby to grab it, which there wasn't, it can cause the picked up dogs to act more aggressively too from a position of elevation/safety. That dog would never have jumped up OP if she hadn't have lifted her dogs in the air, it escalated the situation enormously, which is why she had to use violence to end it. Lifting the dogs should be a last resort if you think it will save them from being bitten/attacked, which was not the case here at all.

I've had dogs all my life, and one of my dogs now has been jumped on so many times by idiot dogs of idiot owners that he has zero tolerance for them anymore, it's a shame as he used to love all dogs, but now he will snarl, snap and see off any off lead dog that pester him, most people follow the etiquette rules around dogs on leads, but we still come across idiot's like OP did, and 9/10 times turning your back and walking away causes it to quickly lose interest, sometime I have to shout at it too (normally performative so the owners get the message), but only once in 30 years have I had to be violent to a dog and that was actively attacking.

OPs dogs are reactive too, and her nervousness about approaching dogs will not be helping that, so she needs to find a much better, safer, strategy for dealing with unwanted attention, and learn how to calmly de-escalate, rather than follow her instincts which actually escalated things, it shouldn't happen at all but it just does unfortunately and as a dog owner you need to be prepared to deal with it effectively.

It's clear that the elderly man had no control over his dog whatsoever. In the eyes of the law he was therefore in charge of a dog that was "dangerously out of control", which is an offence.

You should report this incident.