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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sex Matters vs DPP (deception and consent) - apply for access by 10am Monday 6th

40 replies

Cerealcomplainer · 03/07/2026 06:34

Looks like case is in the High Court Wednesday and Thursday next week.

https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/AC-2026-LON-000781-1.pdf

@Justabakerwill TT be there do you know?

OP posts:
RobinEllacotStrike · Yesterday 10:31

I can see the court but I can't hear anything

RobinEllacotStrike · Yesterday 10:32

ah I can hear now!

StSpiridian · Yesterday 11:13

I can't copy and paste everything but in case anyone doesn't have access to Nick Wallis on X, you can see tweets on nitter.poast and here's Nick's initial tweets for info:

SM are the Claimants (C) and CPS are the defendants (D). These are a few pars which may be of interest from the SM skele:
"This claim concerns the legality of the guidance issued by the Crown Prosecution Service (“the CPS”) entitled ‘Deception as to Sex’ (“the Guidance”), and forming part of a wider suite of CPS guidance on ‘Rape ... and Sexual Offices - Chapter 6: Consent’ . The focus of the Guidance is the asserted position that “questions of deception and consent may involve more complex issues where the suspect is trans or non-binary”... That assertion is wrong. The error of law permeating the Guidance is that a suspect’s asserted gender identity can be relevant in law to the concept of intentional deceit vitiating ostensible consent.... under section 74 of the Sexual Offences Act 2003 (“the SOA”).

The conflation throughout the guidance of a suspect’s subjective gender identity with their...objective biological sex amounts to a misstatement of the criminal law. Moreover, the Guidance is drafted in a manner which is so confusing and unclear as to be unlawful in any event."

Questions of deception and the vitiation of consent to sexual acts arise in the context of rape and other sexual offences, intrinsically connected to the privacy and...autonomy of those involved. The Claimant does not shy away from the effect of its submissions: that there must be candour about one’s biological sex when proposing to engage in sexual...

. activity, unless one’s partner has been explicit that biological sex is irrelevant to their willingness to enter into that sexual activity. This may be uncomfortable for some, but it is the unsurprising price the law exacts for consent to be genuinely free in this... uniquely sensitive context. Clarity about what the law requires in this context, and how the CPS will approach prosecutorial decisions, is to the benefit of everyone."The Guidance fails to accurately reflect the law that a deception as to “gender identity” cannot constitute a deception capable of vitiating ostensible consent for... the purposes of section 74 SOA because it is not sufficiently closely related to the sexual act itself. That is an error of law"

VulnerableBundle · Yesterday 11:44

fanOfBen · Yesterday 10:01

I got refused for not being in the jurisdiction :-( (Scotland - so fair enough I guess, but it's not as though it's not going to have influence here.) If Ben's appearing for Sex Matters I shall be very jealous, but at least I get to c&p some Naomi this morning.

It's OK, @fanOfBen
Nick Wallis tells us Sex Matters (SM) have Sarah Vince KC (SV) and Chris Knight KC (CK) acting as counsel, with Clair Dobbin KC (CD) for the CPS.
No Ben.

I'll aim to catch up with Tempest over lunch.

Cerealcomplainer · Yesterday 16:53

How did this go?

OP posts:
RoseInAPot · Yesterday 16:54

It continues tomorrow. Nick Wallis will write it up on his blog later.

heathspeedwell · Yesterday 17:44

Thanks for keeping us informed.

VulnerableBundle · Yesterday 21:36

Cerealcomplainer · Yesterday 16:53

How did this go?

I couldn't really say. They kept referring to documents I didn't have sight of, and it seemed all very technical, which is appropriate given that it's about the DPP's guidance and was being presented by KCs to two senior Judges, one of whom I think is President of the Kings Bench Division Dame Victoria Sharp.

Nick Wallis gives a typically excellent summary which I am pleased to read.

Dame Victoria mentioned several times how hot it was, in an apologetic way, I think - see below. She and the other judge were wearing high necked long sleeved blouses and white bands, no robes. I think that's what the female counsel for Sex Matters was also wearing, but she was furthest away from the camera. I think the male counsel was in suit and tie but I'm not sure.

Counsel for the CPS wore a jacket and black robe on top. She must have been even warmer: she did make a (perfectly sensible) comment about this in context of the J saying something sympathetic when Counsel lost her place or forgot a reference or something. Her colleague sitting behind her wore a high necked sleeveless black dress, I think, with a black jacket on top which she removed during one of the short breaks and (I think) replaced before the JJs returned.

Apologies to those who think this is trivial: I am interested in formal dress. It seemed to be understood that the heat meant that people couldn't perform at their best, not in a "this will be grounds for an appeal" way, but in a "small lapses of concentration are excusable" one, I think.

Also, having watched the employment tribunals from smaller centres which must be far less used to arranging remote access, the contrast in what observers could see was most marked. There was a split screen: one side showed the two justices front on, and the other the rest of the courtroom looking from one side at the front. Everything was in focus and the sound was clear.

VulnerableBundle · Yesterday 21:59

Also, re dress in court, no legal wigs visible.

AnotherAngryAcademic · Today 09:26

Does anyone know what time it starts today? I was given permission to observe, but couldn't do so yesterday. (I did declare this when applying, so I don't think I have taken anyone else's spot!) The email just gives the starting time for yesterday, I presume it will be the same today?

Signalbox · Today 10:04

What I don’t understand is if (as the cps argue) it’s gender identity that matters in the case where a trans person is involved rather than their sex, doesn’t this put all the AGP men who transition after marriage at risk of being accused of sex by deception by their ex wives? Nearly all those men say they knew they were trans since they were children so whenever they engage in sexual activity, under cps logic, aren’t they committing sex by deception in terms of their gender identity.

VulnerableBundle · Today 10:33

AnotherAngryAcademic · Today 09:26

Does anyone know what time it starts today? I was given permission to observe, but couldn't do so yesterday. (I did declare this when applying, so I don't think I have taken anyone else's spot!) The email just gives the starting time for yesterday, I presume it will be the same today?

I imagine you know now, but it was 10:30am so has just started.

Before the JJs entered I noticed that there are fans. The electrical sort.

VulnerableBundle · Today 11:00

Nick Wallis on X says he's been told we are scheduled for a lunchtime finish.

VulnerableBundle · Today 12:42

Finished. Judgement reserved, drafts will be sent to counsel before publishing.

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