Another victory! For Women Scotland v Scottish Ministers in prisons case

[TheNoWord]

It’s just been on the news in Scotland. More to follow….

Are these people seriously suggesting that biological women are locked up with men. And the worst of men at that.

Yes, definitely ❤️ she did.

Yes. For inclusivity.

No the obvious response is that women should be safe wherever they are and protected from violent men, especially when locked up by government agencies who have control over those spaces and the women have none.

Hospitals, prisons, mental health institutions, immigration detention centres, police stations, court cells....

I am still dumbfounded that my Government have spent all this time and taxpayer's money to fight for men to be held in the women's prison estate. It's utterly, utterly bizarre how they haven't had a 'are we the baddies here?' moment.

Can you imagine where we'd be now without the sterling efforts of FWS, Kate Colman et al?

Even now, it's going to take further legal action to force the SPS and SG to follow the law as they are still dragging their feet.

In about the same way cows and goats are 'included' in the T Rex paddock in Jurassic Park. It's about on the level of how these people view women.

I'm sure that this person considers the risks to transmen worth it to support her personal convictions.

It's essentially state sanctioned punitive rape of vulnerable women because institutions so fear the ire of groups lobbying to remove women's rights.

It's moral cowardice by our elected representatives and institutions.

I meant the obvious response from TRAs, not the obvious (to us) response.

Everyone should be safe in prison (and hospitals, detention centres, also the constantly-debated toilets and changing rooms), and this includes all vulnerable men. Gay men, physically weak men, learning-disabled men - if they are at risk they are, or should be, protected from other men. No one suggests chucking these men in with the women to protect them. Yet so many claim this is the solution for TiM.

I obviously don't know for sure but I do strongly suspect that if you asked 100 trans identified females would you like to be housed in the male or female estate they would overwhelmingly say the female estate.

There was a TIF on GMB a while back arguing that there shouldn't be a blanket ban on TIM being housed in the female estate and it should instead be on a case by case basis. She was asked so would she be happy to be housed in the male estate. Her tone completely changed.

I'll try to find it.

I tried to listen but Jaxon's hypocrisy and selfcenteredness made me angry and I had to stop 😡Ugh! Maybe they don't mind the idea of being housed in a men's jail someday, but I certainly do, and I doubt I'm the only transman of this opinion! Also, way to throw women under the bus, Jaxon! Guess what, they are people too, can you see them behind the sentence?

It’s worth getting to the end, @Seethlaw, because Jaxon gets thoroughly tangled up in her own arguments.

Took you to your word, watched the rest.

Indeed, their one and only argument seems to be: "case-by-case basis", which surprises me, because they honestly don't seem to realise that transwomen are most likely to get bad outcomes in such a process.

Like Rhona said, there are plenty of other vulnerable men being put into special circumstances to protect them in men's prisons. And as Jaxon accidentally agrees to, men as a class are dangerous to women. So why Jaxon imagines that a case-by-case basis would ever come out in favour of the transwoman going into a women's jail, kinda baffles me.

I'm not sure if she's still on twitter but FWS specifically thanked her a couple of days ago for all her work on this
https://x.com/ForWomenScot/status/2067983371553099878

Agree but tbf I believe they explicitly acknowledged that (even with a suicidal TiM), they shouldn’t house him in the women’s estate because women prisoners have their own needs and vulnerabilities. I was very pleased to see that. Looks like judges are finally and belatedly realising that women are human too.

I have been eagerly awaiting this judgement and I'm thrilled that FWS have won (again). I tuned in live and was entertained and infuriated in equal measure. Aidan O'Neill appeared to have no more fucks to give as he tore apart the piss poor arguments of the opposing team so I am very happy that he prevailed despite his challenging approach.

Amazing!

https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,scottish-government-will-not-challenge-trans-prisoner-ruling-neil-gray-confirms

Now ministers have confirmed they will not appeal the court’s decision and the Scottish Prison Service has withdrawn the guidance, with work underway to transfer the prisoners affected.

Does anyone know how the Scottish Green's are reacting to this. I imagine Maggie Chapperson's face is more miserable then ever. 😂

Also very curious as to how the TRA's will react to this.

Trans Reddit are furious. Although obviously not furious on behalf of women prisoners who have been locked up with violent men.

Question asked about the judgement at FMQ earlier on , FM said the judgement has be enacted, the SPS have withdrawn their “ letter” do it looks like the men are out and have been since Tuesday as was thought

Excellent news.

It should never have happened in the first place though and that is what is so utterly disgraceful in all this.

My attitude, if they're threatening suicide, then they should be sent to a secure mental facility, not just sent to an opposite sex prison.