To think that digital creators and business coaches are not proper jobs?

[Peekaboooooo]

An old school friend has a fitness business and is also a business coach. She shares a lot about this on social media which I find intriguing. Before I get slated for this, I admit, this isn't a world I'm familiar with. However, through looking at her content and that of the ladies she associates with who are also business coaches, there's a large amount of posing for social media posts, making reels about growth mindset and using attention grabbing promotions with mildly aggressive sounding wording. Do you know the sort of thing I mean? The common theme seems to be, how to be a 'hard arse' to make money off people, whilst taking lots of selfies. Is this a proper job? Why are so many people doing this now? Having worked in the NHS with mental health and now in schools with a similar role, I can't relate to how being a digital creator or business coach is a real world job. I'm sure I'll be corrected on this but any thoughts one way or the other?

Plenty of jobs don’t serve a purpose to the wider world….doesnt mean they aren’t proper jobs

It’s where all the advertising money is

follow the money

if you get lost in online videos your eyeballs are paying for this

they are jobs

One of the most clueless people I know is a "coach". She's utterly un-self-aware, not the sharpest but a shameless self promoter with a husband who can bring in enough for both of them to live comfortably.

As a business coach, I can categorically state that what you described is NOT coaching, of any sort.

I work with clients, to help them understand their goals, how to achieve them and what works (and doesn't) for them. This can include executive coaching, leadership skills, but for SMBs I take a look across their whole business. Finance, estates, strategy, people, technology are all important.

I do NOT post pics of me or my clients on social media!

It’s the new MLM, most of them have no clients, and it sounds like there’s a lot of wannabes on this thread. 😂

The friend I referred to in the op, often shares posts about this lady https://www.facebook.com/share/1EBVBArggp/
She is undoubtedly seemingly successful in what she does but would I want my daughter to follow this path, not really. It's very eco /image driven and shallow isn't it? Maybe that gives it a financial worth but I'm not sure about a It's ethical/moral worth.

That sounds far more normal and valuable that what my friend shares on her social media.

I think you might be asking the wrong question OP.

In two ways -

It is work, but not a job. I wouldn't use 'job' for being self employed or having a career.

Secondly, you are suggesting some of these content creators and business coaches are not qualified to dispense advice. Which is perfectly true. In that sense they aren't doing a useful 'job' but they might be keeping themselves (self) employed

My son has SEN so I know it's a struggle and it's amazing your son has found something that's right for him.

My concern is that children are growing up with the ambition to be a digital creator, gamer etc but there's also a detrimental side to this. Screens, in various forms, can negatively influence children's lives so much. You rarely hear children in schools now say they want to be a nurse, doctor, teacher, builder, train driver, etc. It's all about SM and YouTube.

It isn’t rare at all. You are being very judgemental. Jobs and the world move on and develop, there’s nothing wrong with progress. There are far worse jobs and people in the world.

I met someone on holiday several years ago and vaguely stayed in touch via sm. A few years ago she trained as a life coach. She posts stuff about mindfulness, inspirational quotes and journalling, and occassionally runs retreats abroad. The posts seem to have very little engagement, ive no idea if or how it generates enough money to live on.

OK, I’ve been trying to ignore your ‘proper job’ judgements, but now you’ve linked to an actual friend of mine, so I gave in.

I may actually know your friend. If she’s working with the woman you link, then yes, she will be working damn hard to build a business that works for her.
Is it her success (or even potential success) and freedom that bothers you so much?

No, most coaches and mentors who work in the online space are definitely not doing MLM. The ones I know are using very specific skills to help others, usually other entrepreneurs, to create a better life for themselves, their families, and their clients.

Many of them are earning extremely well. Some of them earn 5 or even 6 figures per month. Yes, per month. Legally. And yes, of course tax is paid. 🙄

Not every person has the desire to be in a corporate, salaried, ‘proper job’.

I come from a long line of self employed women. And I was thrilled when my daughter also chose to work for herself. It takes a very special kind of power, confidence, bloody hard graft and stamina to build your own business and I am immensely proud of her for that.

ETA Just seen your comments about her appearance. She gets so much of that kind of crap and deals with it with grace and humour. Yes, she admits she has pretty privilege but her life was not easy growing up. She’s incredibly clever and knows her stuff. Also, she’s not a coach. Hah!

I appreciate what you're saying but is the image driven component to these businesses necessary? Most of the digital creators and coaches I've seen are women who are very much about using their image to sell their business brand. If my daughter ran her own business one day, I wouldn't want her to think that her image is a key part of that.

But if the lady in question is your friend, your comments are going to be biased.

Coming from a background in mental health and education, it's also OK for me to have the opinion that the ego/image driven, social media business women are not entirely a good representation to younger girls. I worked with a 10 year old girl the other day who is totally obsessed about her instagram posts and putting her image out there. 10 years old!

Most businesses aren’t image driven. However, in this era of AI it’s considered more important to show your face, be seen to be real and authentic.

it’s an unbelievably busy space, the online world, so if someone has something that makes them stand out in the blur of the scroll, then yes, ‘pretty’ is going to be noticed. It’s human nature.

Plenty of my friends in that world do the same. Not all have her looks, so may not be noticed by non-entrepreneurs or whoever. They still do well because they’re putting in the work. Which starts off as being seen. Engaging with their potential clients through their posts, and then their communities.

I do agree with you though, that some also seem to, I dunno, flaunt it a bit? (Hate that word, but I’m tired) I find myself rolling my eyes sometimes at some big hitters in the sphere but that’s because I personally don’t dress to impress, or for the male gaze. Never have.

It takes a huge amount of self confidence to put yourself out there in this way, so it’s not for everyone. And it’s not necessary for all businesses. It depends on how you want to get clients. I don’t think my daughter has even shared a photo of herself online yet!

Does your daughter know what she wants to do for a career? Building self confidence will be one of the biggest gifts she can carry into adulthood, regardless of her aspirations.

I’m the least biased person you could ‘meet’, but I recognise your assumption. I was stating facts, not opinions. And of course you’re entitled to your opinions, I just object to your judgments and assumptions.

Image has been an issue for decades, probably longer. We all wanted to look like xyz in our youth. All the glossy folk on TV: the models in magazines: the pop and rock stars: the famous actors. We learned to be ourselves.

yes, modern times make this tough as hell, so all we can do is guide our kids as much as possible.

My DD was obsessed with looking a certain way at 10, but she didn’t have social media thank goodness ( because it wasn’t around). She made it through some difficult, very difficult, times and is now comfortable in her own self.

@Peekaboooooo looking at that lady you've linked to.... that looks like a very impressive business she has set up

I'm definitely missing a trick because I don't really understand how to create that kind of success

I don't really know why her appearance has to come into it

And as for moral worth - what kind of moral worth are you looking for? Business is business after all. She may have very sound ethics behind her set up

It feels like you've just looked at her and made a judgement. She takes care of her appearance. Some people really enjoy that.

In a way, I'm stuck in the same position because I have to wear make-up and I feel I have to dye my grey hair just in order to carry on a vaguely professional image.

i'm going to stick my neck out and say I'm not sure how up to date you are in terms of business and work and how it ties in with social media.

as for children, I've been complaining about children being exposed to social media for years. That's mostly about parenting. And 20 years ago, I was told I was an old fuddy-duddy for being concerned about it - by a teacher. And now - here we are.

Not letting kids be kids has got a lot to answer for. But why would you be blaming legit businesses for that? Should they set themselves up thinking "am I being a good example to a 10-year-old?"

Tbf, I did say in my original post that the world of business is not a world I'm in, so yes, I'm sure there are limitations to my understanding. My background is in mental health and now counselling and safeguarding in schools. I guess my work involves the hardships of young lives. I've seen, heard and experienced a lot of very difficult things in my work. As with any job in this field, it's not well paid but I feel like there's a greater purpose to help those who most need it. I admit, I think that probably has made me unfairly judgemental towards the 20, 30 somethings I've seen on sm, especially the coaches, some I've seen talking from very little experience of life yet being a coach.

I just feel like the drive to be on social media for work, to be seen in a certain way, to grab attention, to influence others, is a trend that's unrealistic to the jobs that so many of us do in everyday life. I'm only 40 so it's not like I'm adverse to the advances of technology and media lol! However, it feels like the balance isn't quite right. I'm seeing this as well in relation to the hundreds of young patients and pupils I've worked with over the years, as well as my own children. I think it's important for children to understand that you can be ssuccessful in a future job by just being yourself. You don't have to be performative on sm to do well.

Also, isn't the market of digital creators and business coaching getting a bit saturated anyway?

@Peekaboooooo "I think it's important for children to understand that you can be ssuccessful in a future job by just being yourself."

that's a rare piece of luck I think. I think it's important that children are realistic about work life. I think we already have some evidence of young folks being shocked by the reality of the workplace. We may be talking at cross purposes though.

in terms of saturated market - the stuff many people want to do is always like that. Most of us aren't doing the job of our dreams.

with your first post, there's definitely people out there who aren't making a living from it but maybe your friend is.

When I started my first management role 20 years ago I was given a business coach - she helped me develop and refine my leadership skills and manage a team for the first time. Very corporate, very much NOT a life coach and very much a real job.

Think McKinsey or the like.

However because it’s an unregulated industry the title has been bastardised and now every wannabe MLM Hun has adopted the job title coach and it’s lost significant meaning.

Seems very personal and vindictive to actually post someone you are denigrating.

The OW?

I’m friends with a content creator.

Not sure of her earnings, but I know it’s over £100k as she is over the free childcare allowance. She also has 3-4 holidays a year paid for by a particular hotel brand who want her to promote them.

Her follower numbers are in the tens of thousands rather than hundreds of thousands - so I expect their earnings are a lot, lot more. I won’t name them, but she told me of one creator who charges £80,000 for an ad on the social media accounts.

I'm referring more to the performative, social media images used to promote businesses. I guess I meant it's important for children to know that it isn't a requirement to getting a good job and being successful. Yes, children need to learn about professionalism and workplace standards, etiquette etc. However, I think children are heavily influenced by the sm influencers, gamers, content creators.

Just as an example, I'm following a company on sm called The Contented Child. I believe the people who created it and work for the company have their photos on the website and bios but they don't use their images to promote the business. They don't use meaningless, attention grabbing statements. Obviously I'm describing a very different kind of business and service but my point is, something can be done well without the showiness.

Admittedly, coming from an education background, Mr P is probably up there. Yes he's a content creator but he's also a classroom teacher and education advocate/advisor. Most of his content is very down to earth and about real life/education.
would say he was one of the first to have a social media presence from the education world.

As someone else said up thread, most of these people posting about their “coaching” business are no different to any other multi level marketing “business” (aka a pyramid scheme). No different from being involved in Tropic skincare, Arbor, Stella and Dot, those odd travel agents……

They are essentially trying to make money by getting other people to sign up to “training” as a coach and then they will recieve a small commission from this, so the more people who sign up, the more they earn. But it will be a pittance - classic pyramid scheme. They are highly unlikely to make any money from having coaching clients.

So not really a job as such - just a scammy MLM “girl boss” non business