AIBU to think university executives should not be paid so much that the uni can't afford lecturers

[melisande]

AIBU to expect that the uni my DS might go to should not pay their execs so much that they can't afford to pay lecturers and profs and are making them redundant: News story on cuts at Exeter; same thing happening at Hertfordshire and Sussex. Exeter UCU says that if the 16 highest paid execs at that uni capped their salary at £120k, they'd save more money than all the planned cuts to archaeology and history.

I think we should be looking at procurement and resourcing - so much money wasted there. Middle management too. I don't like our VC but I acknowledge she earns her salary.

I am an an academic and we can't afford the lowest rung new hire academic posts yet the top brass is on over £400k. It's infuriating.

In 2924, wonkhe said only 2 were over £400,000, so who has had the stonking rises since then? Most are not £400,000.

The issue is probably the tiers below and sheer numbers of managers. That’s most likely the staffing areas that need trimming. However with all the Sen, mental heath and other new initiatives such as degrees for apprentices, diversity and social equality, is there any wonder staff numbers have exploded. None of it is actually lecturing!

Staff teaching on degree apprenticeships are ‘lecturing’. It’s the same staff who teach on the standard degrees!

Lecturers and academic staff often lead academic adjacent initiatives too.

@MickyMoonshine I was referring to the vast amount of admin needed to set the degrees up. They are a departure from full time degrees and are more employer driven. They are undoubtedly top heavy in additional admin costs! When I was doing a part time qualification at a now uni (poly) we learnt what the poly provided. Now it’s not like that and it costs.

I work at a university and run a department that offers degree apprenticeships. They’re one of our few growth areas so they’re worth the additional admin.
At my university there are only a very small number of staff who solely work on apprenticeship administration. The bulk of the set up and validation work is done by an academic and once they’re set up they’re managed like any other course and are looked after by the general course admin staff.

We’re dropping our apprenticeships apparently as although they are popular they cost too much to run. Too many meetings and paperwork 🤷‍♀️. No idea as I’m not involved with them.

Yeah they are bureaucracy heavy so you need big numbers to make them worth it. My department has two very big ones which work well but we’ve decided against running smaller ones because we know we won’t get huge numbers.

There are definitely ways in which they could be more efficient but that’s out of our hands.

Degree Apprenticeships are a fantastic option for students. However the wider bureaucratic load involved in apprenticeships
(which at my place is almost wholly shouldered by academics) is ridiculous and adds nothing that might benefit students or employers. There are a whole separate set of apprenticeship standards that need to be met over and above the awarding of a degree. Meeting these requirements sucks time and resources not particularly commensurate with the fees paid. I think universities will move away from this provision more and more

@MickyMoonshine Whoever does the work, there’s a cost to it!!! They simply are more costly than a standard degree in terms of setting up and liaison.

And the fees unis can charge are much less! Typically £22k for the degree rather than £30k. And 20% of that is held back till they’ve completed the (unrelated to degree) end point assessment.

Some support staff salaries are also ridiculously inflated.

The thing is, everyone at my institution moans about the same things. Overworked, underpaid, can't take leave and so on. I don't have a cushy research grant and I typically have 10-15 hours a week teaching during term time.

Nonetheless, my experience of HE, and I came into it after having worked some pretty crappy jobs, is that people don't realise how lucky they are. It's the easiest and most enjoyable job I've had by some distance.

Overworked absolutely. But I really don’t think we are underpaid. Lots of my colleagues moan they don’t earn enough but I genuinely don’t see how you can complain about a starting salary of 45+k a year with automatic increments every year.
Like you I did a lot of jobs before and I earn way way more than I ever would have in any of those areas

My experience is the opposite! I came from the private sector and as a university lecturer I am now paid less but don't work as many hours. I prefer my current work life balance, and I agree some of my colleagues who have always worked in academia don't realise how good it is.

The point I was making was that most of this work is done by existing staff, mainly academics, rather than there being an ‘explosion of staffing’ which needs ‘trimming’ which is what you were suggesting.

I think in the current climate there are very few universities who have an excess of staff at any level. Quite the opposite. I’m genuinely worried about how I’m going to staff my existing courses next academic year as my staffing has been stripped to the bone and there’s a blanket ban on recruitment and using temporary staff. Fixed term contracts haven’t been renewed so I’ve lost the equivalent of 2 FTE. When I couldn’t spare it to begin with.
I’m not sure how our VC expects us to operate.

I agree, I’m paid significantly less than my previous job….though that was in the public sector! We struggle to recruit because people with the qualifications necessary for my programme who are working in the public sector won’t take the paycut to come to HE.

Professional services not support staff.
They’re professions in their own right and deserve professional salaries. We’ve moved on from referring to them as ‘support staff’. Many are just as qualified as academic staff and the salary scales reflect that.

A PA to the VC getting in the region of 45K plus? As well as the incremental pay and public sector pension. There's an argument for starting there with the cutbacks. So they are now called professional staff? So pretentious.

@LuckyHazelFox Are you always so rude? That’s a reasonable salary for a PA. Do you think the job is making coffee and typing? Of course staff running non teaching services are highly qualified. They haven’t got the pretentious doctorates but have undoubtedly worked longer for their positions and had to take professional qualifications. Some lecturers could think about a career change after redundancy if it’s money for nothing?

That’s a really ignorant viewpoint.
They’ve been referred to as professional services for years. I started working in HE 22 years ago and I remember them bringing the salary scales in line with academic salaries and moving on from using the term support services.

An executive officer or PA role is akin to an office manager role. They often have wider responsibilities and in some cases line manage staff. Why shouldn’t they be paid appropriately?

There are a huge number of professional services role across a university and they are vital in the running of an institution. Many senior PS roles will require the same level of qualifications as an academic. For example, A careers consultant at my university is paid the same salary as a senior lecturer. They both require specific postgraduate qualifications, FHEA membership and relevant knowledge and experience.

It’s also quite rude to call a doctorate pretentious.

I’m in a very unique position in that I’ve worked in professional services and now work as an academic. There’s no benefit in trying pit one against the other. They’re both equally as important and the staff in both roles are typically very qualified and have worked hard to progress their careers.
The best departments I’ve worked in are those where academics and PS staff are viewed and treated equally. As they should be.

When universities are complaining about being under funded, those salaries - that's a modest example I've given - are not justified. That includes Estates, Finance, HR etc. I've worked in HE and back in the late 90s the pay scales were high. I might do a bit of my own research later to shock myself at today's extortionate scales for 'professional services'.

Why do you have an issue with the term professional services? You sound very out of touch.
As previously mentioned, many staff will have professional qualifications and significant experience. They’ll be managing complex departments and services.
Why don’t you feel they deserve to be paid fairly?